CoinsAreFun

US Coins, World Coins, and More => US Coins, tokens and medals => Topic started by: VDB Coins on January 31, 2013, 06:24:56 AM

Title: Vibrant Coin Market Looks Probable for Years To Come!
Post by: VDB Coins on January 31, 2013, 06:24:56 AM
But sometimes it is all about the money! The recent sale by Stacks Bowers of the 1794 SP66 PCGS-CAC Flowing Hair silver dollar -- quite likely the first silver dollar ever struck by the U.S. Mint, judging by its die state which matches a copper pattern strike in the Smithsonian -- brought a world record for any coin, U.S. or foreign. The winning bid by Legend Numismatics (Laura Sperber-Bruce Morelan) was $8,525,000, which with the 17.5% buyers premium works out to $10,016,875! This tops the 1933 double eagle sold a few years ago for $7,590,020 by Stack's and Sotheby's. Third place goes to a 1740 pattern Russian ruble which brought more than $4 million last fall.

The sale of the first $10 million-plus coin has important implications for the many, many coins of the United States that are in the six- and seven-figure range (in other words, $100,000 to anything below $10 million). The market for these coins is vibrant, and we are seeing buyers who have never before purchased a coin come into the market. These are mega-rich individuals who are seeing prices of $35 million for contemporary paintings, so spending several million dollars on the finest U.S. coins is no big deal. It should be noted that the Asian buyer of the aforementioned 1933 double eagle was a person who is not even a coin collector or numismatist.

Given the U.S. government's and other governments' around the world -- Japan, Euroland, China -- attempts to deflate their currencies in order to make their export goods cheaper to foreign buyers -- the "race to the bottom" -- there is considerable and mounting evidence that much of that paper money is flowing into alternative assets. Gold, silver, commodities, and rare coins are near the top of the list, but the finest rare coins are a special case.

The next famous rarity coming up to our knowledge is Heritage's sale of the George O. Walton 1913 Liberty nickel at the Central States show in Chicago. Only five 1913 Liberty nickels were made under clandestine and mysterious circumstances, likely in 1912 before the changeover to the Buffalo nickel. A Mint worker named Samuel Brown first exhibited one for sale in 1919 and then advertised all five for sale in 1920, after the statute of limitations had expired. Graded PR63 PCGS, this is the famous coin that was once part of the Colonel Green estate, then went to Burdette G. Johnson and Eric Newman (now age 101.5). CORRECTION: It was one of three sold to James Kelly in 1943, and Kelly soon sold it to Dr. Conway A. Bolt who traded it to "Reynolds." Apparently Walton traded for it in 1945-46 for about $3,750 from the Reynolds family of North Carolina END OF CORRECTION Walton died in a car wreck in 1962, and his 1913 Liberty nickel was recovered along with hundreds of coins at the crash site. The coin went to his sister Melba Givens, who was falsely told that it was a fake, a counterfeit (due to the anomalous 3 in the date, which anomaly all five examples share). She stashed it away in a closet for 30 years. Upon her death, it went to her children, who brought it in 2003 to the ANA Convention where it was finally reunited with its four siblings. The "missing fifth 1913 Liberty nickel" was rediscovered! It has never before been offered for sale, either privately or via public auction. Heritage puts a conservative estimate on it of $2.5 million, but it is one of the Ultimate Trophy Coins and we would not be surprised if it brought twice that amount. Two of the other pieces are in museum collections, leaving only three available on the marketplace.

As in any market, those who profit most -- aesthetic enjoyments as well as financial rewards -- will be those who do their own homework. But decide for yourself what bargains are to be had. We think the Canadian coin market is really underrated and underpriced, and many American collectors of more modest means are flocking to those coins at U.S. coins get more and more expensive. Truly rare U.S. gold is also seeing unceasing demand. British coins and Russian coinage are also hot markets.

But overall, we think the current market environment, both fiscally and politically, shows a numismatic marketplace that will likely remain healthy and vibrant for many years to come! Happy collecting everybody!

Best Regards,  [url=http://www.freesmileys.or

George
Title: Re: Vibrant Coin Market Looks Probable for Years To Come!
Post by: coinsarefun on January 31, 2013, 02:07:11 PM
I absolutely agree with you George and have felt this way for the last 5 years.
Even with the downturn in the economy the coin market for higher grade and rarities
are only going up in value. My personal experience is this:

1) Since I sold off most of my lower and moderate priced coins and started a US type set.
I paid for a few of my coins double or more for them and in the last year now see that they have already caught up to the prices I have paid. So I definitely see a trend.
2) The Russian market has been hot for the last 8 years. Last year it had a moderate slow down but is back to being hot. Again, this is pertaining to key or semi key dates and or high grade examples. Having purchased most of my Russian coins several years back I am seeing most if not all have doubled or tripled in price. Some which are Novodels can not be confirmed as there are very few and when they are sold they are held for a long time, just as I am doing with mine.
3) Canadian market......I am not that experienced as I have owned several pieces but sold them when I sold the other part of my collection but I did not take a loss on them as I did on some US coins, rather I doubled my money. So I would concur based on my short experience.
4)The recent large coin auction for the 1794 SP66 PCGS-CAC Flowing Hair silver dollar is proof positive that true rare and important coins will continue to hold and raise in value.
The V Nickel coming to auction will be very interesting to watch.

I would like to add a very unusual bullion coin to the conversation. The American Silver Eagle, this bullion coin should not be in the same category as the above except I feel that for the general populous this series is being ignored and is slipping by some tremendous possibilities. Granted the market is very small right now as only the MS/PR 70's, toned ones and varieties that are becoming available such as the reverse proof.... Canada has used in recent years.But it cannot be denied they are making strides in market gains.  There has been a new book dedicated to this bullion coin and is the largest world wide collected bullion coin.

These coins as many tokens are and have been quietly collected and snapped
up by many dealers and they are very passionate about them.
I also think as far as entry collectors and bullion collectors this could be the next new wave that drives the value up. It does after all have a very popular and widely collected obverse design of the Walking Liberty Half dollar.

Thanks for starting a great and interesting thread and look forward to many responses.

Title: Re: Vibrant Coin Market Looks Probable for Years To Come!
Post by: VDB Coins on February 14, 2013, 06:59:46 AM
Doing more research on the Walton Liberty nickel it now appears that George Walton traded it from the Reynolds family, although exactly who is unclear (and the Reynolds family have never been able to find any records). Just wanted to clear that up.

Stefanie I was quite interested in your comments about the Russian coinage and would like a recommendation for a good reference work (I read a little Russian but obviously English is preferred) including price guidance. Also I could not agree more about the American Silver Eagles, they are not for everybody but those who are interested in them are keenly interested and passionate about them. The recent shortage of silver planchets at the Mint cannot help but spur that market as well. The recent publication of the John Mercanti work on the series will also boost that series. The silver market has been lollygagging around $30-$31/ounce for quite a few weeks now and I would not be surprised to see a temporary dip, but in the long term I think the prices will spike again, and this series being so closely related (but still loosely) to silver will benefit.

It occurs to me that next year is the 50th anniversary of the Kennedy half as well, a series I call the "Morgan dollars of the 21st century" although they are actually six years longer than the Morgan dollars already. (!) I wrote an article on my website about the series under "Collectors' Guides" that points up the many similarities between the two series. With the 50-year anniversary approaching, I think some of the 1964-after issues will, in the next few years, stop being perceived as "modern junk" or "modern" at all, but rather part of the classic series. In particular, I point out the 1964 SMS (NB, not 1965-67) coins which are among the rarest coins from the second half of the twentieth century. We have bought and sold quite a few individual pieces and complete sets, and have done much research in this area. When they started appearing in the Stack's auctions beginning in 1993, they were not in any official Mint packaging, just clear plastic capsules. The pieces are easily distinguished because they are business strike dies that were all polished roughly and haphazardly, then struck multiple times like a proof, so they show far more detail than any business strike but have a satiny, scarcely reflective (usually) surface unlike proofs (and to my eyes not resembling much the 1965-67 SMS coins, even though Stack's theorized they were experiments for that coinage). Anyway, not all of the sets contained the "real deal" halves (especially) and quarters, so authentication is required. I believe that all the coins are rare, but the halves more so than the other series. I think only 12-15 examples of the half survive. The dimes seem to be the most plentiful. The half in our Registry Set is MS67 PCGS (now they use to SP prefix), a coin we acquired about three years ago. Prices have more than doubled since I acquired my piece, and even then practically all of the sales are private transactions at prices that would astound most readers. The 1964 SMS coins are another area of the "modern" coin market that is going to become more and more interesting as time goes on. I would be extremely interested to hear from anyone who has now, has owned in the past, or knows of examples for sale or at auction. Since I am attempting to complete a roster of all five denominations I would particularly like to know the NGC/PCGS certification numbers and grades. Prices realized are nice but completely optional.

Looking forward to other market areas I think the Royal Canadian Mint's release of the 1912-1914 five and ten dollar gold pieces may temporarily depress that market but it will ultimately provide a stimulus (and a market opportunity for astute collectors).

Best Regards,  [url=http://www.freesmileys.or

George
Title: Re: Vibrant Coin Market Looks Probable for Years To Come!
Post by: coinsarefun on February 17, 2013, 09:49:51 AM
Looks like it may be a very interesting future for collecting coins.

George, I will try to post the information regarding the Russian coins soon.
This mostly comes from my personal experience over the last 6-7 yrs of auctions.

Title: Re: Vibrant Coin Market Looks Probable for Years To Come!
Post by: jpcienkus on March 11, 2013, 09:11:00 PM
This may be quite simplistic, but I think in addition to your analysis, there is a new buyer (like me) coming into the market in reaction to the global currency devaluation game.  As we print more paper money, I wanted to have some precious metals in my portfolio.  As I educated myself on ASE's, I found a previously undiscovered interest in coins.  I immediately was drawn to the Morgan.  While reviewing the Red Book, I was exposed to some other designs I thought were cool, but knew nothing about (WLH, Indian Heads, Peace dollars, Mercury dimes, Buffalo Nickels) and wanted to have some examples for my collection.

I still haven't warmed up to Barber designs.  I understand that numismatic value to these coins, but I don't find them very interesting.   Maybe over time I'll like the more and investigate.

This is a very abbreviated journey of how I became interested in coin collecting, but the spark was definitely ignited when I saw my first ASE proof.
Title: Re: Vibrant Coin Market Looks Probable for Years To Come!
Post by: coinsarefun on March 11, 2013, 10:21:42 PM
I am so happy to know that the ASE's have managed to bring someone into the wold of collecting.
I found them after I was collecting World coins and after Morgans.

Check out this thread here, have you seen the new book on ASE's.....really KOOL :ThumbsUp;
http://www.coinsarefun.com/forums/index.php?topic=1198.0 (http://www.coinsarefun.com/forums/index.php?topic=1198.0)


Title: Re: Vibrant Coin Market Looks Probable for Years To Come!
Post by: VDB Coins on March 12, 2013, 03:30:21 PM
@jpcienkus One thing I have learned in, well, more than a half-century of collecting is, life is too short to collect coins you hate. If Barbers are not your thing, do not lose a second's sleep over it. There will always be plenty of coins you love. Unless I am buying an estate where you have to buy the "swillage," as a friend of mine terms it, along with the good, I never buy a coin unless it has eye appeal. I always think I will resell it some day, so if I don't like it, I don't think my customers will like it, and I don't buy it. (If the price is ridiculously low, that is another story, but it usually raises red flags for different reasons.)

So. Welcome to the forum, welcome to collecting, and welcome to buying coins you love! I too am glad that the ASE's have brought you into this fascinating hobby/vocation.

Best Regards,  [url=http://www.freesmileys.or

George
Title: Re: Vibrant Coin Market Looks Probable for Years To Come!
Post by: cladking on March 23, 2013, 03:09:04 PM
People don't notice the Russian Soviet era coins because they have so little demand and most are relatively common.  But the prices of these have simply exploded with increases of up to 200 fold.  $5 coins are becoming $1000 coins.  The early Soviet material is mostly up five or ten fold in higher grades like Xf and Unc but the later date (post-'60) material in nice Unc is proving to be highly elusive and simply not available even for the small demand and exploding prices. 

I used to correspond with members of the Moscow Coin Club so none of this is any surprise to me.  Coin collecting was discouraged in the Soviet Union but not strongly.  A coin club member could belong tothe Soviet Party but it was a strike against him.   None of these collectors had any interest in any Soviet era coins and few owned any at all.  The few they hjad tended to be in the nature of keepsakes and were the older coins and especially the silver.  Actual collection hardly existed.  They didn't have any access to moderns except the worn coins in circulation and couldn't help me acquire them even at very advantageous trade proposals!  My thinking was that if these coins weren't available there and were considered common here despite not being seen then they were great coins to set aside.  It's a shame they were so elusive.  Except for a mint set once in a while I doubt I found 50 other coins. 

The middle class  is exploding in size all over the world and many of these people have the money to collect coins.  They are demanding many coins that have never been in demand before and increasing demand on coins that have been scarce for many decades.  The world market looks to be something of a game changer.   
Title: Re: Vibrant Coin Market Looks Probable for Years To Come!
Post by: jtabie on March 23, 2013, 04:25:30 PM
Very interesting reads everyone.  I'm new to the forums but have been collecting for 30+ years and it is my love.  I too have seen an influx into numismatics as well as "bullion buyers".  I am not a dealer, strictly a buyer.  I've introduced a few friends to collecting over the years and I'm now finding it easier to introduce new collectors.  From where I sit, I honestly believe this is due, at least in part, to the bull precious metals market and those looking to get in on it.  I too find those who started with gold & silver eagles now working on type sets as well as other coin sets.  In my opinion, this influx will probably increase in the future as more and more "money" seeks haven from "dollars".  Maybe i'm mistaken, but once you are into collecting, it's hard to get out.  For this reason, I think we are adding a lot more than we are losing to the hobby, and with limited supply and increased demand, I think we all know where that leads...UP.  Anyways, as a collector, i'm not so worried about the "prices to sell" going up as I am worried about "cost to buy", but that is just a "small price to pay"(pardon the pun) to introduce others to this wonderful hobby.  I wish everyone a good day and happy collecting,

Todd
Title: Re: Vibrant Coin Market Looks Probable for Years To Come!
Post by: coinsarefun on March 23, 2013, 07:34:18 PM
Hi cladking.....nice to see you drop by.
To carry on the discussion of Russian coins 
check out the darkside forum link below.
http://www.coinsarefun.com/forums/index.php?topic=1218.0 (http://www.coinsarefun.com/forums/index.php?topic=1218.0)


Title: Re: Vibrant Coin Market Looks Probable for Years To Come!
Post by: cladking on March 25, 2013, 09:55:42 AM
For this reason, I think we are adding a lot more than we are losing to the hobby, and with limited supply and increased demand, I think we all know where that leads...UP.  Anyways, as a collector, i'm not so worried about the "prices to sell" going up as I am worried about "cost to buy", but that is just a "small price to pay"(pardon the pun) to introduce others to this wonderful hobby.  I wish everyone a good day and happy collecting,

I'm sure you're right that the future of the hobby is virtually assured at least for the next few decades.  Things are much brighter than they were in 1995 when it looked like collecting was dying for lack of collectors and prices had hit their lowest point.  Indeed, the future is even brighter than in 2000 when it became apparent the sizes of the middle class were going to continue to bloom all over the world.  The increase in metals prices may bring in as many collectors as either of these events and even in this recession the middle class is continuing to make inroads in most countries and to grow in aggregate. 

We will still see some pressure on some coins because of the changing nature of the demand which is becoming more diverse and from a different and younger collector base.  This will continue to put pressure on the lower end of the US market until the economy turns around, I believe.  With good returns in the stock market people won't be putting much money into coins.  When the economy turns around the stock market will begin to level off and huge amounts of new (not yet existing) money will go into coins.  It could mean spectacular gains almost across the board. 







Title: Re: Vibrant Coin Market Looks Probable for Years To Come!
Post by: coinsarefun on March 25, 2013, 01:10:49 PM
For this reason, I think we are adding a lot more than we are losing to the hobby, and with limited supply and increased demand, I think we all know where that leads...UP.  Anyways, as a collector, i'm not so worried about the "prices to sell" going up as I am worried about "cost to buy", but that is just a "small price to pay"(pardon the pun) to introduce others to this wonderful hobby.  I wish everyone a good day and happy collecting,

I'm sure you're right that the future of the hobby is virtually assured at least for the next few decades.  Things are much brighter than they were in 1995 when it looked like collecting was dying for lack of collectors and prices had hit their lowest point.  Indeed, the future is even brighter than in 2000 when it became apparent the sizes of the middle class were going to continue to bloom all over the world.  The increase in metals prices may bring in as many collectors as either of these events and even in this recession the middle class is continuing to make inroads in most countries and to grow in aggregate. 

We will still see some pressure on some coins because of the changing nature of the demand which is becoming more diverse and from a different and younger collector base.  This will continue to put pressure on the lower end of the US market until the economy turns around, I believe.  With good returns in the stock market people won't be putting much money into coins.  When the economy turns around the stock market will begin to level off and huge amounts of new (not yet existing) money will go into coins.  It could mean spectacular gains almost across the board. 




I tend to agree with this cladking and jtabie.
Title: Re: Vibrant Coin Market Looks Probable for Years To Come!
Post by: VDB Coins on March 25, 2013, 04:35:09 PM
Very interesting reads everyone.  I'm new to the forums but have been collecting for 30+ years and it is my love.  I too have seen an influx into numismatics as well as "bullion buyers".  I am not a dealer, strictly a buyer.  I've introduced a few friends to collecting over the years and I'm now finding it easier to introduce new collectors.  From where I sit, I honestly believe this is due, at least in part, to the bull precious metals market and those looking to get in on it.  I too find those who started with gold & silver eagles now working on type sets as well as other coin sets.  In my opinion, this influx will probably increase in the future as more and more "money" seeks haven from "dollars".  Maybe i'm mistaken, but once you are into collecting, it's hard to get out.  For this reason, I think we are adding a lot more than we are losing to the hobby, and with limited supply and increased demand, I think we all know where that leads...UP.  Anyways, as a collector, i'm not so worried about the "prices to sell" going up as I am worried about "cost to buy", but that is just a "small price to pay"(pardon the pun) to introduce others to this wonderful hobby.  I wish everyone a good day and happy collecting,

Todd

Ha ha ... I like that distinction between "money" and "dollars" (I assume you carry it to other currencies as well) ... I have believed for many years but more lately that it really doesn't matter what the pundits say, whether gold is going up or going down ... if you hold it all the time and dollar-cost-average your way in, you will be fine. It is an alternative currency, pure and simple. With all the money-printing going on and the "race to the bottom," (imagine how much the U.S. national debt would balloon if we had to pay 7% on our debt rather than artificially keeping interest rates low), it is not a question of if, but a question of when gold will soar. Check what happened over the weekend in Cyprus and then check if your money market funds are guaranteed by the U.S. government.
Title: Re: Vibrant Coin Market Looks Probable for Years To Come!
Post by: jtabie on March 25, 2013, 05:40:36 PM
I have yet to disagree with anything in this forum so far.  The Cyprus incident should be an eye-opener, yet it seems to me like the reaction is subdued relief, due to the fact that a plan is on the way.  Well, whatever.  I'm more worried about what caused this so-called "rescue" and also, who else (ie Washington DC) noticed this diabolical "rescue".  Bottom line, some individuals will non-voluntarily pay down a debt that they didn't likely create.  This is troubling to me.  To those individuals, it is too late for "havens" or "shelters".  I'll keep my numismatics and precious metals...thank you.
Title: Re: Vibrant Coin Market Looks Probable for Years To Come!
Post by: cladking on March 25, 2013, 06:52:27 PM
I have yet to disagree with anything in this forum so far.  The Cyprus incident should be an eye-opener, yet it seems to me like the reaction is subdued relief, due to the fact that a plan is on the way.  Well, whatever.  I'm more worried about what caused this so-called "rescue" and also, who else (ie Washington DC) noticed this diabolical "rescue".  Bottom line, some individuals will non-voluntarily pay down a debt that they didn't likely create.  This is troubling to me.  To those individuals, it is too late for "havens" or "shelters".  I'll keep my numismatics and precious metals...thank you.


Look at what's going on right here in the US.  Savers haven't had any interest in years as the bankers and government continue their largesse.  They're essentially taking away our savings a couple percent at a time instead of the historical .5%. 
Title: Re: Vibrant Coin Market Looks Probable for Years To Come!
Post by: jtabie on March 25, 2013, 07:53:18 PM
:-)
Title: Re: Vibrant Coin Market Looks Probable for Years To Come!
Post by: VDB Coins on April 03, 2013, 06:58:30 AM
For this reason, I think we are adding a lot more than we are losing to the hobby, and with limited supply and increased demand, I think we all know where that leads...UP.  Anyways, as a collector, i'm not so worried about the "prices to sell" going up as I am worried about "cost to buy", but that is just a "small price to pay"(pardon the pun) to introduce others to this wonderful hobby.  I wish everyone a good day and happy collecting,

I'm sure you're right that the future of the hobby is virtually assured at least for the next few decades.  Things are much brighter than they were in 1995 when it looked like collecting was dying for lack of collectors and prices had hit their lowest point.  Indeed, the future is even brighter than in 2000 when it became apparent the sizes of the middle class were going to continue to bloom all over the world.  The increase in metals prices may bring in as many collectors as either of these events and even in this recession the middle class is continuing to make inroads in most countries and to grow in aggregate. 

We will still see some pressure on some coins because of the changing nature of the demand which is becoming more diverse and from a different and younger collector base.  This will continue to put pressure on the lower end of the US market until the economy turns around, I believe.  With good returns in the stock market people won't be putting much money into coins.  When the economy turns around the stock market will begin to level off and huge amounts of new (not yet existing) money will go into coins.  It could mean spectacular gains almost across the board.

Not sure I agree that the stock market and coin market work in counterbalance. Some people have their stock money, and their "alternative" money. I think the more bullion-related (risk-off) assets work that way, i.e. when stocks are gaining, some people invest less in precious metals, bullion, and so on. But I think we are finally seeing a market where the prices for Rare Coins are divorcing themselves from bullion. Bullion right now is down, yet prices for true rarities are up. This is a good thing for collectors who truly buy quality coins and for dealers who are not PM bullion sellers. For years now some of us dealers have made money or lost money at the mercy of the PM markets. Not a fun way to play. But now things are turning around. Collectors are buying again, and collector coins are selling because people are feeling better about the economy.

The U.S. coin market is becoming more international, in fact I think that probably applies to some other countries as well due to the democratization of selling via the Internet. American coins are seeing great demand from Asian buyers, especially Japanese and Chinese. Canadian coins are increasingly appealing to Americans. I am seeing considerable sales of Australian coins to Brits. Etc. And yes there is a younger generation of collectors coming up as well. But the unhooking of rare coins from precious metals, if it continues as stocks go up and PMs go down/waffle, to me is one of the brightest signs for future gains in truly rare coins. Time will tell if it continues or if we see a selloff in that market segment.

Finally, I have been waiting for years to see some non-numismatic money coming into coins. What do I mean? The folks who buy fine art. If some of that money ever comes into coins, watch out. I think Heritage, for example, is doing an increasingly masterful job of cross-marketing (trying to get people who buy rare wine to try coins, getting coin buyers to try rare books), and if any of the multi-hundred-million-dollar rare art money starts flowing into rare coins, it's Katie Bar the Door. Yes, the markets are different. But how different are they? There is only one Mona Lisa. But there are only a few superhigh-grade 1794 dollars --I have not researched this, it's merely for example, but that is the first coin to recently cross the US$10 million barrier. What is the record for fine art? Several hundred million dollars. I wonder what the first billion-dollar canvas will be? And what will be the first coin to trade for US$100 million? Just thinking out loud. I am 64 and may not live to see those records fall. But this is a great time to be a collector and a dealer. My 2c as always.
Title: Re: Vibrant Coin Market Looks Probable for Years To Come!
Post by: VDB Coins on April 29, 2013, 10:36:45 AM
So, the Heritage Central States auction is history. Despite a huge tank in the precious metals markets on April 15 (or perhaps, "regardless of"), the sale appears to have done quite well. Besides the $3.1 million-plus that the George Walton 1913 Liberty nickel brought, there were three other coins that EACH brought more than $1 million apiece. The 1783 Nova Constellatio Type II quint in AU53 bought $1.175 million, a 1796 Bust silver dollar in MS65 NGC brought $1.175 million, and the Eric Newman 1852 Humbert ten, MS68 NGC, ex: Humbert himself, brought $1.0575 million. The 1792 Silver Center cent in MS61+ Brown didn't fare too badly either, at $822,500.

And in our own backyard, we handled the sale of the finest 1964 SMS set certified by PCGS for a bit more than $150,000, likely a once-in-a-lifetime deal, but who knows?

What most reassures us is how the rare coin market -- and we mean, the market for truly rare coins -- is seemingly divorced from the dicey precious metals/commodities markets. In fact, given the current macroeconomic climate, where cash yields nothing and long-term bonds next to nothing, many investors are being forced into high-dividend-yielding stocks to stay ahead of inflation, which is so far almost nonexistent -- or deflationary. Perhaps some of them, in their search for alternative investments and higher returns, are looking at rare coins and other such to increase their percentage yields? This is just one man's theory, and you need to be really expert to try such a strategy. Purists would say that "rare coins" and certainly not gold are not investments in the purest sense of the word since they do not yield regular and predictable returns. But by the same token, have bonds yielded regular and predictable returns when the interest rate might stay the same but the net return is negative due to depreciation of the underlying asset? Do high-dividend stocks yield regular and predictable returns when many such companies have cut their unsustainably high dividend payouts? Can you say real estate?

I continue to suspect there are some new buyers and new money coming into the coins and collectibles markets for precisely those kinds of reasons. Personally, I am trying to concentrate on saving money for possible deflation (I have enough exposure to gold and PMs, thank you) and/or buying truly rare coins and high-dividend stocks with long histories of increasing and sustainable payouts. Time will tell.  Do your homework, make your own decisions, and you will be better off than listening to someone else tell you what is right for you. Good luck!

Best Regards,  [url=http://www.freesmileys.or

George
Title: Re: Vibrant Coin Market Looks Probable for Years To Come!
Post by: coinsarefun on May 02, 2013, 11:23:09 AM
Great report George. For some reason I was thinking that the 1913 Liberty Nickel would sell
for more although 3.1 million is pretty good.

All the other great numismatic coins did well too, which brings me to a question......
As the true collectable coins are doing well and the rest are basically lagging, most collectors can not afford these rarities and are left with collecting middle of the road coins, what will happen to this market?

Albeit the coins that are collected by the majority are much lower valued, these collectors are
the "middle class" of  the meat and potatoes of the collecting engine that keep this hobby/investment going.

Title: Re: Vibrant Coin Market Looks Probable for Years To Come!
Post by: jpcienkus on May 04, 2013, 07:40:07 AM
@jpcienkus One thing I have learned in, well, more than a half-century of collecting is, life is too short to collect coins you hate. If Barbers are not your thing, do not lose a second's sleep over it. There will always be plenty of coins you love. Unless I am buying an estate where you have to buy the "swillage," as a friend of mine terms it, along with the good, I never buy a coin unless it has eye appeal. I always think I will resell it some day, so if I don't like it, I don't think my customers will like it, and I don't buy it. (If the price is ridiculously low, that is another story, but it usually raises red flags for different reasons.)

So. Welcome to the forum, welcome to collecting, and welcome to buying coins you love! I too am glad that the ASE's have brought you into this fascinating hobby/vocation.

Best Regards, 

Thanks George.  Sorry for the late reply.  I plan to spend some more time on this site. (http://www.freesmileys.or

George
[/quote)
Title: Re: Vibrant Coin Market Looks Probable for Years To Come!
Post by: VDB Coins on July 20, 2013, 10:37:25 AM
A couple of months later. The precious metals markets continue in the doldrums, but for how much longer? I lot of the short positions have been squeezed out. What is more interesting, though, is that collectors are realizing that truly rare coins are still relatively cheap compared to many other measures. We just sold a 1990 No S Lincoln cent in PR69 DCAM PCGS -- population 23 including duplicates --  for well over $16,000 to a longtime client, well above the PCGS price guide. As Laura Sperber of Legend pointed out recently, a Gem Bust half dollar for $12,500 looks pretty cheap as well! Seated coins, Bust coinage, rare date gold, British sovereigns, early coppers, and Lincolns are all doing well, along with  a lot of other market areas -- and despite depressed precious metals prices!

Keep an eye posted for the monster Platinum Night that Heritage has coming up on August 9th, including the Mickley-Hawn-Queller-Greensboro Collection 1804 Original silver dollar graded PR62 NGC, a coin plucked out of a teller's drawer at the Bank of Pennsylvania around 1850. There is also an incredible run of branch mint proof Morgan dollars and early proof Seated coinage, some incredible stuff! I think the coin market is doing just fine. Watch the bidder cards fly!

Best Regards,

George
Title: Re: Vibrant Coin Market Looks Probable for Years To Come!
Post by: coinsarefun on August 01, 2013, 11:56:37 AM
What is more interesting, though, is that collectors are realizing that truly rare coins are still relatively cheap compared to many other measures. We just sold a 1990 No S Lincoln cent in PR69 DCAM PCGS -- population 23 including duplicates --  for well over $16,000 to a longtime client, well above the PCGS price guide. As Laura Sperber of Legend pointed out recently, a Gem Bust half dollar for $12,500 looks pretty cheap as well!




This are my exact feelings and I have too have been saying this all along!!
Kudos to rare coins :smiley-cool11:


Title: Re: Vibrant Coin Market Looks Probable for Years To Come!
Post by: VDB Coins on August 12, 2013, 02:53:05 PM
Well, I reread some of my own advice in this thread and have been buying lots more coins in the series I love, mostly Lincoln cents, a couple of nice Bust halves, U.S. type, British and Canadian rarities, and really nicely toned coins of all denominations!

The results are in from the Heritage Platinum Night. The 1804 dollar graded PR62 NGC, ex: Joseph Mickley-Reed Hawn-David Queller-Greensboro Collection, once again set a record, although I think it was only by about $100,000 over the previous appearance. Still, $3.8 million-plus is a pretty dang impressive performance!

I found it interesting what Laura Sperber wrote about the Heritage ANA auction:

"These guys have done an amazing job of expanding the numismatic marketplace. Legend has a great customer base, but these guys have created a monster 'black hole' for coins. Can't say it was that exciting for us, but it did have some very nice what we call "product" pieces. We just got blown out-again! We're sort of starting to feel like 'has beens.'

Our bids totaled $2,610,056.00. We won only $967,323.00. Again, we were highly aggressive and just got blown out."

George again: We are seeing a lot of interest in modern coinage including the 1964 SMS sets and the various No S modern proof issues. And whatever specialties people have in their numismatic collecting, they seem to be putting strong money to find the pieces they need. This is NOT an investing bubble, COLLECTORS are driving the market right now.

I also notice that gold and silver are both spiking quite a bit today from their recent lows, gold currently at $1335.60 up 1.79% and silver soaring, currently $21.38 up 4.77%! While as I have said previously this has only a tangential effect in our opinion on the market for real numismatic rarities, it does provide a base of support. I also note that GLD, the ETF, has crossed back above its 50-day moving average, as has SLV, the silver ETF. Perhaps the PMs are putting in some nice bottoms? Only time will tell, I don't believe anyone should ever bet the farm on PMs, I wish I had a dollar for every time they have proven me wrong.

But the vibrancy in the numismatic marketplace shows no sign of waning. We will be doing a small show, the Blue Ridge Numismatic Association show in Dalton, Georgia, www.BRNA.org (http://www.BRNA.org), Table 319, and will have more to say when that show is ended. If you frequent these parts or just want to come by and say hello, we would be glad to see you!

Best Regards,  :)

George
Title: Re: Vibrant Coin Market Looks Probable for Years To Come!
Post by: coinsarefun on August 19, 2013, 10:41:47 AM
Hi George,

Yes the market is getting even stronger. Almost all across the board there is upward movement. I watched a good deal of
this years ANA Chicago Stacks US, World and Ford auctions. Canada tokens, German, Russian, Poland, US nice type coins
and more broke records across the board. I am referring to very nice, well graded high end collector coins. I missed out
on several different toned type coins for my type set. I think we will be in a vibrant coin market for the years to come.

Title: Re: Vibrant Coin Market Looks Probable for Years To Come!
Post by: VDB Coins on October 22, 2013, 12:04:03 PM
So. Next up is one of the most remarkable coin collections of all time, the Eric P. Newman Part II collection. His 1796 Bust quarter is the best on the planet, given the incredible grade of MS67+ Star by NGC, undoubtedly a presentation strike with a 3D appearance and incredible toning. Oh, and CAC. (I was high bidder on it for eight minutes this morning. Quit while you are ahead, can't afford it.)

The Heritage cataloger called it the most beautiful American silver coin, period. And despite decades of rumors, Col. Green did NOT have rolls and rolls of Prooflike 1796 quarters. He had one, and this is it, as his inventory survives. Eric Newman paid 75 bucks for it, many, many moons ago. I'm betting it goes for well over a million. A lot of the Bust quarters are stunners, most of them plate coins in Early Quarter Dollars by Rory Rea, Dr. Peterson and the gang.

The early dollars are nearly as phenomenal, multiple high-grade Mint State Bust dollars, many finest knowns. The Seated quarters, Mint State and proof, are to die for, all original Wayte Raymond album toning.

It looks like right now, collector coins, PMs, and the stock market are all going up, until Congress manufactures the next economic crisis. Sit back and watch the Newman Collection. There is something for everybody in there. But it's gonna be a heckuva show!

I'm looking forward to going back to Yale in a few weeks, want to examine their Bela Pratt medals collection and some of their incredible Russian coinage collection.

Best Regards,  :)

George
Title: Re: Vibrant Coin Market Looks Probable for Years To Come!
Post by: coinsarefun on October 23, 2013, 09:34:29 AM
This auction should prove to be quite entertaining.


Title: Re: Vibrant Coin Market Looks Probable for Years To Come!
Post by: VDB Coins on October 26, 2013, 09:09:51 AM
I just checked on the Newman Collection 1796 quarter. The current bid with buyer's premium is just shy of a half-million dollars. Rock and roll! 17 bidders so far. It's gonna be a heckuva party -- the whole collection, I mean, as well as this coin in particular.

Nov. 2: Current bid with BP is $1,057,500, the live auction is on Nov. 15, nearly two weeks away. Hold onto your hats, some high winds a-blowin'!

Best Regards,  :)

George
Title: Re: Vibrant Coin Market Looks Probable for Years To Come!
Post by: coinsarefun on November 02, 2013, 09:41:37 AM
All I can really say is wow ??? 8)


Title: Re: Vibrant Coin Market Looks Probable for Years To Come!
Post by: VDB Coins on November 16, 2013, 10:22:51 AM
Final tally on the Newman 1796 quarter? $1,527,500 including BP.

Best Regards,  [url=http://www.freesmileys.or

George
Title: Re: Vibrant Coin Market Looks Probable for Years To Come!
Post by: mmarotta on November 17, 2013, 07:39:56 PM
Write-up and pictures from Coin World here:
http://www.coinworld.com/articles/printarticle/second-newman-sale-gets-november-dates (http://www.coinworld.com/articles/printarticle/second-newman-sale-gets-november-dates)

It is a stunning coin, no doubt about that!

Title: Re: Vibrant Coin Market Looks Probable for Years To Come!
Post by: VDB Coins on January 17, 2014, 07:09:45 AM
I read recently where Heritage had sold more than $105 million in one week to get their New Year off with a bang! This included the Platinum Night and FUN auctions along with the incredible Mervis large cents, all the NYINC stuff and Currency, wow what a way to start off the year! The 1787 Brasher doubloon brought more than $4.5 million, the Hawaii Five-O 1913 Liberty nickel brought $3.29 million, and yet another 1927-D that had belonged at one time to Dr. Steven Duckor (and sold in David Akers' Dr. Thaine Price collection offering) brought almost $2 million.

Obviously collectors are spending freely for top-quality material. I think it is a really good sign for the market that rare gold coins are going up while bullion gold is going down. I was surprised the Brasher didn't bring more but I think folks don't consider it a Federal issue; it's more a pattern proposal for Federal coinage, apparently. Nonetheless I think the price will be considered a bargain someday! I bought a few things from FUN and Mervis (and elsewhere) but the sweetest early gold coin I had my eye one got away from me.

Best Regards,  [url=http://www.freesmileys.or

George
Title: Re: Vibrant Coin Market Looks Probable for Years To Come!
Post by: VDB Coins on August 30, 2014, 07:40:46 AM
We recently got back from the regional Blue Ridge Numismatic Association show where we had a record year! This is always a great show, more than 400 dealers on 300 tables, and like most shows, most of the sales were at the wholesale or dealer-to-dealer levels. But we were really cheered to see that collectors were buying as well! They were opening their wallets for nice collector coins. Sure, they are price-sensitive, but who isn't? Still, nice coins, priced right, were selling in good quantity. Other dealers nearby were also seeing good sales volumes, as far as I saw. And the important point is one I have made earlier in this thread, this is all despite the silver and gold bullion prices being in the doldrums! We bought one supernice coin at wholesale, a great-looking 1820 Small Date cent  with the encircling die crack, one of the Randall Hoard varieties, in MS64 Brown PCGS-CAC with great luster, and it didn't even make it back home with us!

More sales of the Newman and Gene Gardner collections are on tap the next few months at Heritage, plus of course the monster Pogue Collection sales set later for Stack's. We believe that the U.S. economy is definitely on the uptick, and our show experience confirms that! Time to buy some coins y'all!

Best Regards,  :)

George
Title: Re: Vibrant Coin Market Looks Probable for Years To Come!
Post by: rrantique on November 05, 2014, 05:48:25 PM
It occurs to me that next year is the 50th anniversary of the Kennedy half as well, a series I call the "Morgan dollars of the 21st century" although they are actually six years longer than the Morgan dollars already. (!) I wrote an article on my website about the series under "Collectors' Guides" that points up the many similarities between the two series. With the 50-year anniversary approaching, I think some of the 1964-after issues will, in the next few years, stop being perceived as "modern junk" or "modern" at all, but rather part of the classic series. In particular, I point out the 1964 SMS  (NB, not 1965-67) coins which are among the rarest coins from the second half of the twentieth century. We have bought and sold quite a few individual pieces and complete sets, and have done much research in this area. When they started appearing in the Stack's auctions beginning in 1993, they were not in any official Mint packaging, just clear plastic capsules. The pieces are easily distinguished because they are business strike dies that were all polished roughly and haphazardly, then struck multiple times like a proof, so they show far more detail than any business strike but have a satiny, scarcely reflective (usually) surface unlike proofs (and to my eyes not resembling much the 1965-67 SMS coins, even though Stack's theorized they were experiments for that coinage). Anyway, not all of the sets contained the "real deal" halves (especially) and quarters, so authentication is required. I believe that all the coins are rare, but the halves more so than the other series. I think only 12-15 examples of the half survive. The dimes seem to be the most plentiful. The half in our Registry Set is MS67 PCGS (now they use to SP prefix), a coin we acquired about three years ago. Prices have more than doubled since I acquired my piece, and even then practically all of the sales are private transactions at prices that would astound most readers. The 1964 SMS coins are another area of the "modern" coin market that is going to become more and more interesting as time goes on. I would be extremely interested to hear from anyone who has now, has owned in the past, or knows of examples for sale or at auction. Since I am attempting to complete a roster of all five denominations I would particularly like to know the NGC/PCGS certification numbers and grades. Prices realized are nice but completely optional. Per VDB coins  George. I agree and I followed up on these in 2014 buying annual proof and mint set Kennedys the 50th anniversary set in high relief. (the silver set is great)

(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb187/rrantique/rrantique011/103_0321_zpsa72a7d3f.jpg) (http://s210.photobucket.com/user/rrantique/media/rrantique011/103_0321_zpsa72a7d3f.jpg.html)
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Title: Re: Vibrant Coin Market Looks Probable for Years To Come!
Post by: VDB Coins on January 03, 2015, 09:52:45 AM
Thanks for sharing, rrantique. I did the same thing, bought a few each of the high relief clad, the 4-piece silver sets, and the gold Kennedys as well. I think they are a fantastic shot in the arm for a series that is already popular. However, PCGS chose not to include the coins in the Complete Variety Registry Set, a move that I consider simply stupid. While one might argue that including the gold Kennedys might discourage some collectors (and that is certainly true, as they are not cheap containing 3/4 ounce of gold), but I can see no justification for not putting in the special-finish 2014 silver issues. How are they different from the 1998 SMS (which was available only in the two-coin commemorative Robert Kennedy dollar//JFK half dollar set from the Mint) and the later Satin Finish coins, all of which are in the Complete Variety Registry Set?

PCGS includes them all only in various Commemorative Registry  Sets.  :'( I think this tends to dampen demand for them as well. PCGS might have made this clear before we spent so much money on them. I am not feeling the love.

Oh. BTW. Regarding a Vibrant Coin Market, have you taken a look at the Partrick Colonials? A 1792 Birch cent in MS65 Star Red and Brown NGC -- that's crazy! The bid is currently $1.5 million plus 17.5 buyer's premium -- more than $1.7 million! And he has an incredible number of other fantastic Colonials up in Heritage's FUN auction as well. I see where Heritage put out a press release saying they had sold nearly $1 billion between all of their different venues -- sports, coins, Hollywood, luxury vintage handbags, and so on. But U.S. coins was the leader of all of them, of course, at $334 million. So it looks like the coin market is doing Pretty Well, despite a down year for precious metals.

But at any rate I wish all of you here a Happy, Healthy, and Prosperous 2015 and wish Stefanie a continued speedy recovery!

Best Regards,  [url=http://www.freesmileys.or

George
Title: Re: Vibrant Coin Market Looks Probable for Years To Come!
Post by: VDB Coins on March 28, 2015, 06:59:56 AM
I am glad to announce (belatedly, as it has been a few weeks ago) that PCGS has finally seen the light of day and put the various 2014 Kennedy half dollar issues into the complete Kennedy Half Registry Set definitions/compositions. This should help increase demand and financially assist the many of us collectors who poured considerable funds (at least I did, anyway) into these gorgeous coins. They also kept them in some of the Commemorative sets where they were first placed, also good to not harm the collectors of those sets who bought, thinking they would need them for completeness.

In other news, the first session of the celebrated (although that is too mild a word) Pogue Collection is only a few weeks away now from Stack's Bowers, as well as the incredible material (mostly but not entirely Seated Liberty coins) from the Gardner III sale soon to be offered by Heritage! It feels like the numismatic world is collectively holding its breath to capitalize on these two incredible auctions coming up. I expect that the prices will be superstrong, and I continue to believe that a lot of New Money is coming into the numismatic market from folks that we would not classify as traditional numismatists. These folks are liable to swoop down on something like the unique-outside-of-the-Smithsonian 1822 half eagle, or the only known Mint State 1872-CC Seated dime which is in Gardner III, and add it to their collections of Bugattis, Picassos, fine jewelry, and bottles of Chateau Lafite-Rothschild. The strength of those two auctions (particularly given -- again, for another year, relatively lackluster precious metals prices) should go a long way towards determining the health of the numismatic market in 2015. My 2c.

Best Regards,  :)

George
Title: Re: Vibrant Coin Market Looks Probable for Years To Come!
Post by: VDB Coins on September 09, 2017, 06:21:59 AM
Anybody alive here? It looks like even the crickets are dying. Back to the overall coin market, the Pogue Collection sales through Stack's Bowers were certainly a shot in the arm for the coin market, and it does not seem to have sucked for too long a great deal of disposable money out of the market. The recent news is that a new billionaire collector has been spending money hand over first, millions of dollars in the last few months alone, attempting to even better the complete (virtually, those known to him at the time) collection of the great Louis E. Eliasberg, Sr. The new collections are stunning and visible at the PCGS Set Registry website.

We have resigned (as of July 2017) after 12 years as longtime writer-editor-researchers for Heritage Auctions and gone back to just being full-time coin dealers. It was great but tiring, and I learned an incredible amount about top-end coins while I was there.

Happy collecting to all!

Kind regards,

George