Group of Conder Tokens on their way...

[Conderluva]

Hi Guys,

I agree that if it is not in D&H then it can't be considered a "Conder token." To discriminate by date is a bit difficult though. There are more than a few 19th Century issues in D&H.  Among the Scottish farthings...the latest date being 1819 I believe.  Even if you exclude the small sections in Scotland that are dedicated to 19th Century pieces there are still a good number of tokens in the Great Britain section with dates of 1800 and 1801.  The notorious Hertsfordshire 1, more than a few Pidcock pieces in Middx as well as a smattering of others in Middx, some Staffordshire pieces and some Warwickshire pennies + more.

[BCNumismatics]

Conderluva,
  This strengthens the case for a world-wide numismatic photo gallery.

I've got some currency tokens from London dated 1857 & 1858 - the Professor Holloway ones,in my collection.

This is why the British Isles' currency token section of the gallery needs to have the 17th. & 19th. Centuries included in addition to the 18th. Century.

As for the county divisions,they would need to be divided by traditional county names,then by towns.

Ulster's issues need to be classed separately from Ireland.

Aidan.

[Conderluva]

I may have missed a previous conversation. The talk about a gallery...is this because a gallery is already in the works or is it just being tossed around as a hypothetical situation? 

I suppose that if one were to make a Conder token gallery, it should contain only Conder tokens as found in D&H.  Including other tokens outside of DH in a Conder gallery wouldn't make sense.  I was just pointing out that many pieces in DH are 19th Century.  One that really bends the date rule but is very eagerly sought by Conder collectors....Middx 836 struck by William Till and estimated to have been struck 1840s (some believe even later.) 

If the idea was to make a British token gallery, then I guess it would have to be at least subdivided into sections for 17th cent, 18th cent(non-Conder), Conder tokens, 19th Cent. 

But all these things would be up to the individual creating the gallery.

[BCNumismatics]

Conderluva,
  It is a proposal that is needed to be implemented.

If one is created,it would have to include the British Commonwealth currency token issues as well.

For the British Isles,it would need to be divided by country,then by county,then by towns,then divided by century.Ulster (Northern Ireland) would need to be kept separate from Ireland anyway.

Of course,there would need to be sections created for the non-local issues of currency tokens.

I think that the gallery would need to have the gallery program from http://www.photopost.com ,which http://www.zeno.ru uses downloaded & installed onto it.

Aidan.

[coinsarefun]

Conderluva,
  This strengthens the case for a world-wide numismatic photo gallery.

I've got some currency tokens from London dated 1857 & 1858 - the Professor Holloway ones,in my collection.

This is why the British Isles' currency token section of the gallery needs to have the 17th. & 19th. Centuries included in addition to the 18th. Century.

As for the county divisions,they would need to be divided by traditional county names,then by towns.

Ulster's issues need to be classed separately from Ireland.

Aidan.

Aidan,

I have looked at both links in detail and I have to be honest here...............

I do not see anything that they offer that we do not have on this site.

Neither sites or programs that you keep linking too offer more than ours, other than
you need to pay for one of them (photopost.com)

I have not quite figured out why you feel the need to constantly push the other sites.

I appreciate you as a member here but would appreciate you better if you try to work with our
photo gallery. It is almost identical. I have checked every aspect!

As far as www.zeno.ru that you keep recommending......I think most if not all here appear to be happy and feel that the repeated linking to these sites are not necessary.


I strongly suggest that you take time and look through our own gallery and do some exploring.

If you are not happy with what we offer here, don't use it!

To be fair to our site please stop with the links.



Stefanie

[BCNumismatics]

Stefanie,
  It was Larry who was originally asking questions about what currency tokens can be classed as being Conders & what isn't.

What is wrong with suggesting that we,the numismatic community,should be involved in creating a stand-alone online photo gallery as our way of giving the cataloguers,especially the team at Krause Publications,a helping hand? Some of Krause Publications' numbering is a total mess.

Aidan.

[coinsarefun]

What is wrong with suggesting that we,the numismatic community,should be involved in creating a stand-alone online photo gallery as our way of giving the cataloguers,especially the team at Krause Publications,a helping hand? Some of Krause Publications' numbering is a total mess.

Aidan.

I appreciate that you want to help out Krause Publications but you are my guest here and I am asking you to cut back the linking to outside websites unless it is directly related to the coin discussed.

You have such a great wealth of numismatic knowledge. Please use it for our benefit on this forum instead of linking to other web hosting sites.



Stefanie

[Catbert]

I am late to this party and I'm sure it is long over.  However, I did want to quote what Richard Doty had to say about this slice of token history!

"Eighteenth-century tokens passed through a number of phases, unlike their seventeenth-century counterparts. They were most commonly issued in the denomination of a halfpenny, although penny tokens are also common, early in the period, as are farthings towards its end. These tokens were much larger and heavier pieces than their seventeenth-century predecessors, the halfpenny tokens mirroring the size and weight of regular regal copper coins. Many, in fact, were a good deal heavier than their royal equivalents.

Their size and thickness had much to do with their appearance. Most were much more skillfully designed than members of the earlier group. While artistry could still be crude (and was very often trite), it could sometimes be outstanding, reflecting the best of eighteenth-century Neoclassical taste. The thickness of these tokens encouraged lettered edges: here was a handy place to indicate where the tokens might be redeemed. As time wore on, tokens with plain edges also appeared, struck in a one-piece collar. These tokens proclaimed (and indeed fostered) technological changes in coinage itself: the screw press was yielding place to a steam-powered apparatus, which would soon be employed for orthodox coinage as well.

Thousands of different tokens were struck in the ten years between 1787 and 1797. They began as payment for workers in the booming manufacturing and mining establishments of the early Industrial Revolution. Their utility soon demonstrated itself to ordinary merchants, who were issuing them as well by the beginning of the 1790's. In time, pieces "for general circulation," (usually of a lighter weight than those of specific issuers) came into being, as did counterfeits, and, by 1794, tokens for collectors. But no issues specifically for towns were struck.

In sum, the eighteenth-century token coinage shows some characteristics not seen for seventeenth-century issues. But low-denomination pieces predominate, as does the use of copper as a coinage metal.

In general, nineteenth-century tokens feature higher denominations than their predecessors. If halfpennies were most popular in the eighteenth-century series, pennies found greatest favor in that of the nineteenth century. The typical nineteenth-century token will have been struck by steam power; its large size and heavy weight will have rendered this necessary. It is likely to have been struck in a one-piece collar, but it will have received "thread milling" on its edge while still in the planchet stage. Matthew Boulton had introduced this arrangement on his regal halfpennies of 1799, and it proved highly popular on copper coins and tokens for the next twenty years of so. Our typical nineteenth-century token will almost certainly lack the artistry of its eighteenth-century equivalent. It will have been struck for immediate use, perhaps for the workmen at a particular firm, and not for collectors. It will therefore not possess the beauty we encounter on earlier issues. As it is likely to be the product of an industrial or mining concern, it may depict scenes of manufacturing or smelting. Or it may feature a product made by the firm. It may as easily simply bear the name of the issuer, the denomination, and perhaps the date. The relatively inartistic approach seen on the nineteenth-century copper token has limited its appeal to the collector."

http://www.chicagocoinclub.org/projects/PiN/emt.html

And, thus, I agree with Larry.

[BCNumismatics]

Dan,Larry & Stefanie,
  The British Isles 19th. Century currency token series saw the issue of some 1 Penny coins in addition to Farthings & 1/2 Penny coins,plus there were also 2 & 3 Pence coins in copper.

The most well-known 2d. was issued by Robert Blake of Norwich,which is undated.

The 3d. that springs to mind is the big copper 3d. that was issued by the Birmingham Workhouse in 1812-14.

If you do decide to set up a stand alone currency token photo gallery,I'd be more than interested in contributing photos of my 17th.,18th.,& 19th. Century ones,which includes a few silver ones.

Aidan.