The Bank of Upper Canada thread

[Larry]

Post your examples of Bank of Upper Canada half penny or one penny tokens.

Here's my best, a one penny example.

[Conderluva]

I don't have a single one...but that's a beautiful token , Larry!  I might have to get one.

[Larry]

Here's more., which I posted on CoinTalk earky this morning.

Look in an edition of Krause that pertains to the 19th century, the 1800's, in Canada and find Upper Canada which was a province.  It's a special case and one of the small number of tokens listed in Krause. I looked in Krause again tonight, and I own several of these tokens. 


-------------------------------------

The catalog number in Krause is KM# Tn2 for the half penny tokens 1850-57.

Mintage figures run from high of 750,000,000 examples of the 1852 half penny, and 750,000 in 1850 and 1854.

Correction:  Thanks to Mike, I've looked again and found that the mintage figure was 1,500,000 for the 1857 copper issue.

-----------------

The catalog number for the one penny tokens is KM#Tn3 for the copper penny tokens of 1850-57.

I have one that stuck out upon reviewing the mintage figures after looking up Upper Canada.

There were 1,854 bronze tokens (KM# Tn3a) struck in 1854 and an indication that some were struck in 1857, but no mintage figures or prices are listed. But if none were struck an 1857 date would not appear there, would it?  Perhaps there were fewer than the 1,854 struck in 1854.

No prices are listed for any of the bronze one penny tokens (KM# Tn3a), indicating rarity, imho.

Perhaps mine is a rarer-than-I-thought bronze proof, or at least prooflike.  Hmm...
Obviously struck at Heaton in London and the last year of issue for the series. 
Hmm...  MY $200 max bid and my auction victory at $31.50 USF seems pretty good right now.

Thanks for making me refer to Krause again.  Good news, I suspect.  : )


---------

.

[Larry]

Another idea occurred to me.  The Heaton Mint acquired Boulton's steam presses when Soho went out of business.

Perhaps these tokens were struck with some of Matthew Boulton's equipment.

It sure looks 'Boulton-esque' to me.

Thoughts?  Opinions?

[coinsarefun]

Larry,

That sure is a beauty
Now I have to search for one!

[mmarotta]

Mintage figures run from high of 750,000,000 examples of the 1852 half penny, and 750,000 in 1850 and 1854,
There were 1,854 bronze tokens (KM# Tn3a) struck in 1854 and an indication that some were struck in 1857, but ... 

Larry, I have to ask about your reading of the facts published by the Krause SCWC.  The number 750 million is way too large.  It would have been coinage for several major nations at the same time.  In that year 1854, the UK pounded out only 12 million copper pennies.

Also, note that in the tables, where there is no mintage figure for the Proof, there are figures for business strikes.  1857 was not a "proof only" year. 

At least that's how I read it.

Your coin is remarkable, for sure. 

Anyone who has not owned one, ought to.  Even in Very Fine or XF, these are stunning, far superior to anything coming from Philadelphia at the time.  They are very easy for American collectors to overgrade, not knowing what to expect. 

[BCNumismatics]

Larry,
  The coins struck in medallic alignment were struck at the Royal Mint in London,whereas,the ones in coinage alignment were struck at Heaton's Mint in Birmingham.

That's a very nice 1857 1d. that you have got there.1857 for both denominations is extremely underrated,but luckily,I do have a pair of them.

Check the reverse of the 1850 1d.,as some have a dot between the tips of the cornucopiae.Those are quite scarce.I got one a fair few years ago now.

There are also subtypes in the 1854's as well.

Have a read here; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coins_of_Upper_Canada .

Aidan.

[Larry]

Mintage figures run from high of 750,000,000 examples of the 1852 half penny, and 750,000 in 1850 and 1854,
There were 1,854 bronze tokens (KM# Tn3a) struck in 1854 and an indication that some were struck in 1857, but ... 

Larry, I have to ask about your reading of the facts published by the Krause SCWC.  The number 750 million is way too large.  It would have been coinage for several major nations at the same time.  In that year 1854, the UK pounded out only 12 million copper pennies.

Also, note that in the tables, where there is no mintage figure for the Proof, there are figures for business strikes.  1857 was not a "proof only" year. 

At least that's how I read it.

Your coin is remarkable, for sure. 

Anyone who has not owned one, ought to.  Even in Very Fine or XF, these are stunning, far superior to anything coming from Philadelphia at the time.  They are very easy for American collectors to overgrade, not knowing what to expect.

Thanks, Mike...

1.  Sorry about that; the mintage for non-proof copper one penny tokens in 1857 was 1,500,000,  Pardon my typo.

2.  If none were struck why is the date and denomination listed under Tn3a?  I believe I'll find that a few specimens were struck.  If my coin is in fact bronze, it will prove my point.

3. Though no mintage figures are listed for 1857 for proofs, the date is there, whereas Krause never lists a date for a type unless at least a few were struck.  That's my opinion at this time; I have to give this coin the benefit of the doubt until proven wrong beyond a shadow of a doubt.  I am seeking a non-destructive means of determining the composition, hoping for some tin in its composition.  I will be contacting an expert in Canadian coins to follow up.  Unfortunately I cannot find his name or phone number right now.  He lives in the Detroit area. Perhaps it is a proof; I certainly believe it to be of bronze and not copper.  ; )

4. I believe it was not a 'proof only year,' but a year in which both business strikes and a few proofs were struck.  But proof dies may have been prepared then used to strike business strikes, with a single, blow, therefore making them 'prooflike,' which was my first opinion of the surfaces.  I found out recently the difference between proof and prooflike.  The answer is a single strike for PL and multiple strikes for proofs.  Finally an explanation that makes sense to me.  It seems so simple now, with this new information.  : )

5.  Some people rely on what they read.  This was information that I found between the lines, oft challenging prevailing opinion and published 'facts.'

I have spoken to Chet Krause on the phone in the past year or two, but have not asked him about this question.  One thing he told me was that the coins and currency pictured in Krause, with very few exceptions, were owned by him.  Can you imagine?

BTW, Chet pronounces his last name 'Kraus-ee.'