Author Topic: Conder tokens  (Read 4738 times)

Offline coinsarefun

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Conder tokens
« on: June 27, 2009, 06:05:17 AM »
Please share your stories,knowledge and expertise you have gained in all the years of collecting regarding Conder Tokens.
And tell us why you started collecting and share any tips you may have.


Stefanie
« Last Edit: July 01, 2009, 01:04:45 PM by coinsarefun »



Offline dean1345

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Re: Conder tokens
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2009, 04:40:45 PM »
A 1795 Middlesex Conder Token





A 1836 H.W. Robinson Hard Time Token




Offline coinsarefun

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Re: Conder tokens
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2009, 01:01:14 PM »




Offline Catbert

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Re: Conder tokens
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2009, 08:31:09 PM »
This is a 1797 Conder token, catalogued in the Dalton and Hamer reference book as from the county of Middlesex, # 906. For 18th Century English Provincial token collectors, it is one of the most popular and desired tokens to possess (minimally, at least for this collector) of 1000s of different varieties that can be accumulated! It is considered rare with less than 75 made. Collectors label it the “wild man” token.

It was produced for a merchant by the name of Richard Summers who was located in the West End of London. He was a dealer in curiosities, but also sold perfume (R.C. Bell – Tradesmen’s Tickets and Private Tokens). Unlike some earlier tokens created for small change (in response to the refusal of the King to produce anything but silver and gold pieces), this piece was likely made for contemporary collectors who became fascinated with the craftsmanship of their makers. Here are the seller’s pics (Jerry Bobbe):



The Obverse

It is a man or is it an ape? I could imagine such a figure or mask displayed in Mr. Summer’s shop to entice interest among his customers or to create an ambience of the exotic. The token’s legend reads: “A WILD MANS HEAD FROM THE LAND OF JESSO TO BE SEEN AT” and the statement continues on the reverse. The Land of Jesso was not a real place and can be seen on old maps to represent unexplored or unknown areas. A web reference states:

“…."Jesso" can be said to be a combination of Hokkaido, Sakhalin and southeast Siberia. The indigenous group known as the Ainu are native to both Hokkaido and Sakhalin, so the unfortunate "wild man" was presumably of that ethnic group. The alternative, of course, is that the head wasn't a real human head, and that Mr Summers crafted it himself. He would then have chosen "Jesso", on the far side of the world, because nobody would have known any better to contradict him.”

http://www.coincommunity.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=23742

I’ve taken an off angle picture that I think elicits the appropriate “terror” response!



The Reverse

In the middle is Richard Summers’ cypher RS. The outer edge continues the sentence from the obverse with his business address. He advertises that “PAINTINGS BOUGHT SOLD AND EXCHANGED”. Here’s another off angle picture that captures the 100% red color (amazing for something this old):



The Pedigree

Another compelling aspect to this piece is its pedigree that I would be remiss in not sharing. It was once owned by Wayne Anderson who was an early copper specialist who assembled an extensive Conder token collection. He commissioned Allan Davisson to auction his collection that was conducted in April 2000 soon after his death from cancer. The auction catalogue states: “Wayne’s goal was to have the finest possible example of each piece he collected. He understood the issues involved – flan, strike, die polishing, flan polishing before the strike, surface, natural color, long term storage effects – and was constantly refining his collection.” He also possessed a major collection of rare marbles and was an expert on custom knives (Davissons Ltd. catalogue - Auction Thirteen, Part II, The Wayne Anderson Collection).

Wayne Anderson was also the founder of the CTCC – the Conder Token Collectors Club, of which I am a member, and its first editor of their quarterly journal.

In a tiny way, I hope to honor his memory by this post.




Offline Catbert

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Re: Conder tokens
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2009, 08:49:01 PM »
Some commentary on typical condition and essential Conder token reference material for those wanting to collect 18th century versions:

Regarding condition, many Conder tokens can be found in AU to UNC condition. This is because they were so popular and there were many contemporary collectors who became enamored with their themes (political, social, business, or just their design). For example, the key rub point for the wild man is the nose where one must see the hair or it is probably AU.  Mine is a gem or at least near gem condtion - adding to its rarity.

Some Conder varieties were heavily used as intended and thus received wear - as small change to lubricate buying and selling or to pay workers during England's Industrial Revolution. Others were made for collectors (like mine above - although it is considered to be a half penny, with only 75 made, it was not likely to be used as such).

There are not many internet links to share that give a lot of information on Conder tokens. There are several key reference books (expensive and many out of print) that are most useful. The essential catalogue would be Dalton and Hamer's "The Provincial Token - Coinage of the 18th Century". There is a 2004 updated version and it will run you about $185 to acquire. If after that, one wants to go after the out of print references, then the next step in my opinion, is to collect the R.C. Bell books that provide some historical info on each piece. The five for the 18th century will run about $350+ total to acquire depending upon condition. The challenge to collect these is that there is realistically no end to the type. There are thousands of different pieces with different edge inscriptions. I mainly collect by what design strikes my eye along with condition and rarity.  It is probably impossible to collect them all.

Now, as to an internet link, I think this is a good one to provide one with some background on one of the big names behind the manufacture of many of these pieces:

http://sohomint.info/tokenstory1.html
« Last Edit: August 03, 2009, 08:52:25 PM by Catbert »

Offline coinsarefun

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Re: Conder tokens
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2009, 02:36:48 AM »
Thanks Catbert for some great info on Conders :)


I'm very happy to see you made your way here and hope you continue posting some great Conders.
I really love how you give the background history behind each one ;D




Stefanie

Offline musky1011

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Re: Conder tokens
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2009, 07:36:38 PM »
Here is one I purchased from you
Your pics also
We the sheeple of the United States of America

Offline musky1011

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Re: Conder tokens
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2009, 07:37:42 PM »
and another
We the sheeple of the United States of America

Offline coinsarefun

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Re: Conder tokens
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2009, 08:07:24 PM »
Here is one I purchased from you
Your pics also





I thought that one looked familiar :)
It a great Conder!


Stefanie

Offline mmarotta

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Re: Conder tokens
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2009, 03:29:20 PM »
GOOD MONEY: BIRMINGHAM BUTTON MAKERS, THE ROYAL MINT, AND THE BEGINNINGS OF MODERN COINAGE, 1775-1821 by George Selgin (The Independent Institute, University of Michigan Press, 2008).

This is a dense book.  The writing is fluid, almost colloquial, and that screens the fact that each page, each paragraph is important at the detail level.  The research supporting this is exactly the kind of background information that numismatists crave.  Iti is a book you will want to own because it tells the story behind the listings in the catalogs.

You will meet Matthew Boulton, of course, and James Watt, as well.   But who cut the first dies for the Druids of the Parys Mine?  Was it John Milton the assistant engraver of the Tower Mint?  So say most sources.  But a narrative from Thomas Welch, told to cataloguer Charles Pye, says that Milton himself allowed that only a few proofs came from his dies.  The first production coins were the work of Birmingham engraver John Gregory Hancock.

As for "why" it is one thing to talk vaguely about a "shortage of coins."  Selgin takes you to the factories -- now employing hundreds each, sometimes a thousand... men who earned literally pennies a day -- and it was a fair wage, a living wage, if nothing more -- but there were no pennies with which to pay them. Men sometimes grouped up, formally or ad hoc, and all were paid with one large coin or one large bank note and they all went shopping.  Otherwise, a local tavern might "advance" beer and bread against wages, or more often give food and drink to a gang of men.  In short, the lack of pennies and ha' was a direct, material hardship.

British merchant tokens -- from the Parys Mines, from the Wilkinson Iron Works, from other shops and factories -- saved the industrial revolution from internal collapse.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2009, 03:32:27 PM by mmarotta »
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