CoinsAreFun

US Coins, World Coins, and More => Paper Money => Topic started by: FilthyBroke on February 01, 2010, 08:31:45 PM

Title: I should have stayed away....
Post by: FilthyBroke on February 01, 2010, 08:31:45 PM
....from the paper money forum.  Way too much cool stuff over here! ;D  My father-in-law showed me his inherited collection of large notes and silver certificates, and they really got me interested.  I decided to put it out of my mind for the time being, but it really is hard to stay away.  The artwork on some of the early U.S. notes is VERY nice! 

I will have to ask you all to cease and desist.  It's too tempting.  ;)
Title: Re: I should have stayed away....
Post by: Zantetsuken on February 01, 2010, 10:37:45 PM
....from the paper money forum.  Way too much cool stuff over here! ;D  My father-in-law showed me his inherited collection of large notes and silver certificates, and they really got me interested.  I decided to put it out of my mind for the time being, but it really is hard to stay away.  The artwork on some of the early U.S. notes is VERY nice! 

I will have to ask you all to cease and desist.  It's too tempting.  ;)

Give into your temptation. You know you want to. Resistance is futile. HAHAHAHAHA!!! Sorry, I couldn't resist. All kidding aside, collecting coins and notes can be very addictive. No one knows this better than myself. For example, I saw some beautiful Russian gold coins at a local coin store the other day, and I had a hard time keeping my drooling under control. That's the fun of the hobby though.

~Daniel
Title: Re: I should have stayed away....
Post by: Scottishmoney on February 02, 2010, 06:01:42 AM
Nothing to see in early USA paper money, move along folks...


























































































(http://www.scottishmoney.net/banknotes/usa/national50lancasteroh1909dtl.jpg)
(http://www.scottishmoney.net/banknotes/usa/national50lancasteroh1909tn.jpg)
Title: Re: I should have stayed away....
Post by: FilthyBroke on February 02, 2010, 06:12:23 AM
Give into your temptation. You know you want to. Resistance is futile. HAHAHAHAHA!!! Sorry, I couldn't resist. All kidding aside, collecting coins and notes can be very addictive. No one knows this better than myself. For example, I saw some beautiful Russian gold coins at a local coin store the other day, and I had a hard time keeping my drooling under control. That's the fun of the hobby though.

~Daniel

It won't take much, to tell you the truth.  I was hoping that one day my father-in-law would pass the collection my way. :)  I have a few pics (somewhere), he had me check the prices a while back.  I also find myself browsing through the colonial currency once in a while on Ebay, but know so little about them that I haven't picked anything up yet. 

I figure that it'll happen one day, but I'm still learning the coins/tokens that I collect now, do I have time for more studying? :HMMMMM;  (just thinking aloud)
Title: Re: I should have stayed away....
Post by: FilthyBroke on February 02, 2010, 06:13:49 AM
Nothing to see in early USA paper money, move along folks...


You are not helping.... ;) :D
Title: Re: I should have stayed away....
Post by: Scottishmoney on February 02, 2010, 09:08:57 AM
If you are interested in colonials now is the time to shop around, they are not meeting reserves in auctions and there is a lot of choice stuff out there.  If you really look and are persistent you can pick up some really neat stuff - in the past year I have bought two Ben Franklin printed notes, one a 1746 that is not priced in Newman, and some autograph notes with John Hart's signature on them(He also signed the Declaration of Independence) at a pittance price because there are so many of them in auctions that they often get overlooked.  One of my favourite finds from last year is this one:

(http://scottishmoney.net/banknotes/usa/colonials/newyork3d.jpg)

(http://scottishmoney.net/banknotes/usa/colonials/newyork3dfr.jpg)

Which wasn't cheap as colonials go, but for the issue which is incredibly rare since most of them are very heavily circulated or non existent now because they were called in and redeemed by the city.
Title: Re: I should have stayed away....
Post by: FilthyBroke on February 02, 2010, 09:56:55 AM
Scottishmoney, that one looks much nicer than the ones I've seen so far.  The prices I've seen also seemed lower than I would have expected, which often makes me suspicious.  Many of the colonials had holes punched in them, which I was told was done to cancel the note.  Is this accurate? Also, are there copies or counterfeits to the extent of what seems to be entering the U.S. coin market?
Title: Re: I should have stayed away....
Post by: coinsarefun on February 02, 2010, 11:30:58 AM
That's why I try to stay away and never open these threads :smack;

But, that's what I said about Conders, HTT's, CWT's and various other numismatic items :Funny;
Title: Re: I should have stayed away....
Post by: Scottishmoney on February 02, 2010, 12:44:42 PM
Scottishmoney, that one looks much nicer than the ones I've seen so far.  The prices I've seen also seemed lower than I would have expected, which often makes me suspicious.  Many of the colonials had holes punched in them, which I was told was done to cancel the note.  Is this accurate? Also, are there copies or counterfeits to the extent of what seems to be entering the U.S. coin market?

Counterfeits do exist, but fortunately they are usually the tourist trap "parchment" type paper that stands out like a sore thumb to everybody but those bidding on eBay.  Contemporary counterfeits exist of many of the Continental Congress issues, they were made by the British - and because they were identified - the counterfeits were quickly found and destroyed.  So if you can find one of the British counterfeits from that time they are worth a lot more than the real "Continentals".  Since the John J. Ford sale, and subsequent releases from the state archives in North Carolina a lot of notes that were previously rare are very common now.  There is just not enough collector interest in them, even with the history etc.  Not a lot of people are even familiar with them, they really are plainly designed etc. 

As such they are really only a historical interest to me, it is rather exciting to behold a note that Ben Franklin ran through his paws 250+ years ago - but they do not have attractive designs usually.
Title: Re: I should have stayed away....
Post by: Scottishmoney on February 02, 2010, 12:46:04 PM
That's why I try to stay away and never open these threads :smack;

But, that's what I said about Conders, HTT's, CWT's and various other numismatic items :Funny;

My whole accumulation of numismatic materiel polluting up numerous safe deposit boxes is a testament to a completely directionless pursuit - or many thereof.
Title: Re: I should have stayed away....
Post by: coinsarefun on February 02, 2010, 12:52:30 PM
That's why I try to stay away and never open these threads :smack;

But, that's what I said about Conders, HTT's, CWT's and various other numismatic items :Funny;

My whole accumulation of numismatic materiel polluting up numerous safe deposit boxes is a testament to a completely directionless pursuit - or many thereof.




LMAO :D :D
But its so dang much FUN!!!! ;D ;D
Title: Re: I should have stayed away....
Post by: walmann on February 02, 2010, 01:01:21 PM
"My whole accumulation of numismatic materiel polluting up numerous safe deposit boxes is a testament to a completely directionless pursuit - or many thereof."

Most likely your collection is not so directionless. When it comes to collecting objects that you are attracted to (objects of beauty in your eyes) then it is merely a matter of your collection being esoteric.

Title: I should have stayed away....
Post by: BCNumismatics on February 02, 2010, 03:16:06 PM
British Commonwealth banknotes have always been of interest to me.

I've been seriously collecting British Commonwealth postal orders since 2004 when I bought some cashed Orange Free State 1/- & 5/- postal notes as banknotes,as they are listed in Pick Specialised,except for the 1/6 denomination,which wasn't declared legal tender as currency.

Aidan.
Title: Re: I should have stayed away....
Post by: Zantetsuken on February 04, 2010, 10:31:38 PM
If you are interested in colonials now is the time to shop around, they are not meeting reserves in auctions and there is a lot of choice stuff out there.  If you really look and are persistent you can pick up some really neat stuff - in the past year I have bought two Ben Franklin printed notes, one a 1746 that is not priced in Newman, and some autograph notes with John Hart's signature on them(He also signed the Declaration of Independence) at a pittance price because there are so many of them in auctions that they often get overlooked.  One of my favourite finds from last year is this one:


Which wasn't cheap as colonials go, but for the issue which is incredibly rare since most of them are very heavily circulated or non existent now because they were called in and redeemed by the city.

Nice New York note 'scottishmoney'. Here's one from my home state of Pennsylvania. This is a 6 Shilling note dated 1773. Not nearly as nice as your specimen though. Thanks for sharing.

~Daniel

(http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/3221/pennsylvaniacolonial6sh.jpg) (http://img25.imageshack.us/i/pennsylvaniacolonial6sh.jpg/)

PENNSYLVANIA (COLONIAL)~6 Shilling 1773
Title: I should have stayed away....
Post by: BCNumismatics on February 04, 2010, 11:00:27 PM
Daniel,
  That's a very nice Pennsylvanian 6/- note that you've got there.

I've never come across colonial American banknotes (pre-4th. of July 1776) before,but they would be of interest to me,being proper British Commonwealth banknote issues.

Aidan.
Title: Re: I should have stayed away....
Post by: Scottishmoney on February 05, 2010, 03:01:12 PM
Signed by John Hart, who a bit later would go on to sign the Declaration of Independence:

(http://scottishmoney.net/banknotes/usa/colonials/newjersey15shillings.jpg)

Notice the reference to George III on the note, people had given up on the parliament, but not their King yet.

Printed by the Ben:

(http://scottishmoney.net/banknotes/usa/colonials/pennsylvania50sfr.jpg)

(http://scottishmoney.net/banknotes/usa/colonials/pennsylvania50srv.jpg)

Title: I should have stayed away....
Post by: BCNumismatics on February 05, 2010, 03:09:10 PM
David,
  Those are amazing late colonial notes that you've got there.

There were some Americans who were trying to prevent the breaking away of America from the British Empire between late 1775 & early 1776 as a way of trying to prevent conflict.

Unfortunately for them,they ended up throwing in their lot with the American Loyalists,& ended up in Canada,the British Isles,& the West Indies as a result.

Aidan.
Title: Re: I should have stayed away....
Post by: Zantetsuken on February 05, 2010, 06:25:15 PM
NICE! Those are beautiful notes 'scottishmoney'. Not to mention the historic importance of these notes. Thanks for sharing these.  :ThumbsUp;

~Daniel
Title: Re: I should have stayed away....
Post by: FilthyBroke on February 05, 2010, 06:30:31 PM
I love those colonials! :ThumbsUp;

 Zantetsuken, I'm originally from PA, too.  I thought that if I started collecting notes that a PA colonial note would be the one I'd look for first.
Title: Re: I should have stayed away....
Post by: Scottishmoney on February 05, 2010, 07:43:04 PM
I love those colonials! :ThumbsUp;

 Zantetsuken, I'm originally from PA, too.  I thought that if I started collecting notes that a PA colonial note would be the one I'd look for first.

I have tonnes of PA colonials, fortunately that is one of the colonies that had a lot of paper money that survived.  And there are some rare issues, like the Lighthouse and Workhouse issues that are fundraising issues from the time that are fascinating.
Title: Re: I should have stayed away....
Post by: Scottishmoney on February 05, 2010, 07:50:59 PM
One of those notes I bought when I was a teenager who spent all of his money on coins and banknotes and nothing else - such a dork then...

Now I like this because of the engraving on the reverse with the water pump and the fountains:

(http://scottishmoney.net/banknotes/usa/colonials/newyorkcity4s1776.jpg)

(http://scottishmoney.net/banknotes/usa/colonials/newyorkcity4s1776r.jpg)

Shortly after this note was issued by the city, New York was occupied by the British and would be for the most of the rest of the war.
Title: Re: I should have stayed away....
Post by: FilthyBroke on February 06, 2010, 10:04:02 AM
Ok, guys - this is probably a dumb newbie question, but are these individuually signed and numbered ('cause they look hand-signed) or is the signature printed on them?
Title: Re: I should have stayed away....
Post by: Zantetsuken on February 06, 2010, 11:09:24 AM
Ok, guys - this is probably a dumb newbie question, but are these individuually signed and numbered ('cause they look hand-signed) or is the signature printed on them?

It's not a dumb question, because I'm not sure myself. My guess is that they are a hand signed. The serial # and signature look like they were written with a quill pen. Also the ink color looks different from the pattern of the note, and the strokes look too uneven especially on the mint masters signature. Again this is just a guess. Anyone who has more information, please chime in.

~Daniel
Title: Re: I should have stayed away....
Post by: Scottishmoney on February 06, 2010, 01:08:02 PM
Printed signatures on banknotes only started making an appearance in the 1860's when they were less a counterfeiting deterrent - before then hand signed notes were most prevalent.  Hand signing of paper money largely disappeared by the early 20th century - but lasted until the 1960s in Northern Ireland.
Title: Re: I should have stayed away....
Post by: Zantetsuken on February 06, 2010, 01:49:43 PM
Printed signatures on banknotes only started making an appearance in the 1860's when they were less a counterfeiting deterrent - before then hand signed notes were most prevalent.  Hand signing of paper money largely disappeared by the early 20th century - but lasted until the 1960s in Northern Ireland.

Wow! That's much later than I would have thought. Interesting, thanks for sharing.

~Daniel
Title: Re: I should have stayed away....
Post by: FilthyBroke on February 06, 2010, 05:12:31 PM
Printed signatures on banknotes only started making an appearance in the 1860's when they were less a counterfeiting deterrent - before then hand signed notes were most prevalent.  Hand signing of paper money largely disappeared by the early 20th century - but lasted until the 1960s in Northern Ireland.

Wow! That's much later than I would have thought. Interesting, thanks for sharing.

~Daniel


Yeah, this is good info to know, thanks. :)
Title: Re: I should have stayed away....
Post by: Scottishmoney on February 06, 2010, 06:08:32 PM
The last handsigned notes in the USA were the Series 1902-1908 Nationals that were issued by National Banks on up through 1927, of course some were rubber stamp signatures, a few printed, but most were handsigned by the bank officers:

(http://www.scottishmoney.net/banknotes/usa/national519021908battlecrkmitn.jpg)
Title: Re: I should have stayed away....
Post by: Zantetsuken on February 06, 2010, 09:51:54 PM
The last handsigned notes in the USA were the Series 1902-1908 Nationals that were issued by National Banks on up through 1927, of course some were rubber stamp signatures, a few printed, but most were handsigned by the bank officers:

(http://www.scottishmoney.net/banknotes/usa/national519021908battlecrkmitn.jpg)

Nice specimen. I didn't realize that handsigned notes were issued that late date in the U.S.. I thought they went out during the mid to late 19th century as minting methods became more sophisticated. Thanks again.

~Daniel
Title: I should have stayed away....
Post by: BCNumismatics on February 07, 2010, 07:15:38 AM
One of those notes I bought when I was a teenager who spent all of his money on coins and banknotes and nothing else - such a dork then...

Now I like this because of the engraving on the reverse with the water pump and the fountains:

(http://scottishmoney.net/banknotes/usa/colonials/newyorkcity4s1776.jpg)

(http://scottishmoney.net/banknotes/usa/colonials/newyorkcity4s1776r.jpg)

Shortly after this note was issued by the city, New York was occupied by the British and would be for the most of the rest of the war.

David,is this amazing colonial New York 4/- note listed in either Pick or Pick Specialised?

If it isn't,then you should email some photos to Owen Linzmayer at owen@banknotenews.com so he can get it listed in his new world banknote catalogue.

As this is a colonial note,it is most definitely a British Commonwealth banknote of interest to me anyway.

Aidan.