At or NT?

[coinsarefun]

And NO cheating by looking up the cert number...........................

True gut feelings only




for a really big image, click herehttp://www.pcgs.com/TrueView/Large/15613351.jpg

[walmann]

If you're a grader for a TPG then AT.

If you're a dealer selling then its clearly NT.

[FilthyBroke]

Are we guessing what PCGS says, or what our own opinion is? 

...because PCGS seems to be taking the side of caution lately, from what I've seen.  Either way, I'd say AT.  Just a gut feeling as the colors look 'different' and the areas of toning are off from what I'd expect to see.

But what do I know?

[coinsarefun]

Are we guessing what PCGS says, or what our own opinion is? 

...because PCGS seems to be taking the side of caution lately, from what I've seen.  Either way, I'd say AT.  Just a gut feeling as the colors look 'different' and the areas of toning are off from what I'd expect to see.

But what do I know?

We all know pretty much what PCGS's answer would be but I am looking for what people think

btw, here is my image if it helps in any way. For some reason their images appear to be very, very red.
Almost over exposed or white balance is off.....what do I know.
When I take the image I hold the coin up to the monitor and if it looks the same then I know its accurate

[walmann]

AT even though most likely not  intentionally done.

Does not look like natural environmental (no contact with other substances or chemical containing items) toning which is the measure I go by.

[Larry]

I'd go by their photos in which nothing is burned out, but both sets of photos are informative. Your color balance and chromatics may be better.  ; )

The coin is obviously naturally toned, imho.  : )

I doubt that anybody artificially toning a coin would imagine or seek this result, or be able to achieve it.

Natural toning generally consists of only one layer, like this coin has.

I believe its toning is natural but unattractive.

Admittedly, this is more than simply a gut reaction.  ; )

[walmann]

This coin is a great conversation starter for the AT/NT debate.

Toning is tarnish, tarnish is corrosion. Most metals tarnish naturally and hence most coins will tone.
Toning is greatly influenced by the environment the coin is stored in. Packaging, humidity, other objects in close proximity all impact toning.

There are two issues regarding toning, in addition to toning that is purposefully perpetrated on coins, the first is what is considered true natural toning and at what point does toning cross into environmental damage.

Some purist believe natural toning is that which occurs under "normal" conditions. For some this means other adjacent objects or even packaging/storage media is not accelerating the toning process.

Others feel toning impacted by original mint packaging is more than acceptable. Some in the group also feel toning resulting from coin albums and other collector display media is also acceptable. There are those that disagree with one or both of these positions. Those that feel toning enhanced by packaging and storeage media as being AT may point to such obvious issues as PVC residues from collector media, which clearly crosses the line into the area of damage.

The hobby as a whole is not in agreement to not only what "looks" like AT or NT , but to what are the agreed ed upon acceptable agents of toning.

Perhaps there never will be a set standard of what the hobby will consider AT or NT, grading in itself is subjective and there will most likely always be an element of subjectivity in ones view of toning.

[FilthyBroke]

Well, I'll say this- Stefanie NAILED that pic!!  Great job, I think the TrueView may be over-saturated.  You should offer your photography services to them.

I was just trying to figure where it would have been stored to receive such toning.  An envelope maybe?  Any ideas?  I prefer it with the toning to without, for what it's worth.  It has quite an original look to it, and I'll bet that's what attracted you to it.  I like it!

[Larry]

This coin is a great conversation starter for the AT/NT debate.

Toning is tarnish, tarnish is corrosion. Most metals tarnish naturally and hence most coins will tone.
Toning is greatly influenced by the environment the coin is stored in. Packaging, humidity, other objects in close proximity all impact toning.

There are two issues regarding toning, in addition to toning that is purposefully perpetrated on coins, the first is what is considered true natural toning and at what point does toning cross into environmental damage.

Some purist believe natural toning is that which occurs under "normal" conditions. For some this means other adjacent objects or even packaging/storage media is not accelerating the toning process.

Others feel toning impacted by original mint packaging is more than acceptable. Some in the group also feel toning resulting from coin albums and other collector display media is also acceptable. There are those that disagree with one or both of these positions. Those that feel toning enhanced by packaging and storeage media as being AT may point to such obvious issues as PVC residues from collector media, which clearly crosses the line into the area of damage.

The hobby as a whole is not in agreement to not only what "looks" like AT or NT , but to what are the agreed ed upon acceptable agents of toning.

Perhaps there never will be a set standard of what the hobby will consider AT or NT, grading in itself is subjective and there will most likely always be an element of subjectivity in ones view of toning.

1. Toning is patination, not tarnish or its underlying corrosion.  Beneath tarnish lies corrosion.  Beneath natural toning on sliver coins lies an unaffected surface.  You can remove natural toning and prove this for yourself -- no corrosion.  You can verify this with a microscope, just as I can identify dipped coins which in my estimation have altered surfaces, and fall into a similar category with AT coins.  Alter a coin's surface speedily and it will never be the same.  Dippers are 'alterers' of coins.  Someday, dipped coins may be ineligible for grading by TPG's, or recertification.  Until you have looked carefully at dipped coins under a microscope you may never realize the dramatic effects of even one momentary dipping.

2. There are experts in the field of toned coins who make good money only because they can easily tell the difference in NT and AT coins.  I know some who have two Type Sets, blast white and toned.  I have one friend whose blast white set is complete, and he continues to work on his toned collection.

3. Would you think all of the beautifully toned Barber silver coins are tarnished and corroded?  C'mon.

We know that nobody except an idiot would take their $1,000+ silver quarter of half dollar and try to AT it, so when we see high MS-graded toned Barbers, we can judge, for a starting point, what natural toning can look like.  And to many folks with experience, it looks nothing like tarnish and/or corrosion, but does look the same as naturally toned dimes of the same series.  ; )

4. Stef's coin does seem to have a bit of tarnish near the top of the both sides, with more on the reverse, for comparison, and that is not AT, but natural.

5. In my estimation, unless you touch the surfaces with chemicals or equipment, the toning will occur naturally, for some coins. If they all toned, there would not be such enormous profit potential.  It is nature, and as difficult to predict as the outcome of artificial manipulation.  No matter what outside influences and environment may affect a coin, their effects will be difficult to predict.

6. Natural toning can appear magically on coins in albums, envelopes, rolls, even in slabs.

7, It is when folks try to speed the process artificially, basically altering the coin, that AT results.

8. I have talked with scientists that say toning is tarnish, and some who say it is patination.   For that reason, the scientists may be a long time in recognizing naturally toned coins, mainly because toning is not presently quantifiable and they cannot deal with that fact.  They may deny and decry all natural toning and many of them will not purchase toned coins at all.   ; )

9. Purists or not, folks will continue to differ, and the non-scientist collectors and dealers will reap the rewards.

10. To me, natural toning is obvious.  If I had a question, I'd avoid buying the coin.  To me, artificial toning and tarnish are rather sickening.  Tarnish involves impurities on the coin.  Many coins are predestined to tarnish because they left the mint with some foreign residue on the surface(s) or acquired it later on.  Conversely, many coins are already beginning to tone before leaving the Mint.

11. I am quite sure that not one single coin or token in my collection has been artificially toned, and I have collected coins since 1949.

12.  Coins are often AT'ed to cover up digs and scratches, and you'll usually find AT on coins whose value was diminished due to previous surface damage.  Except for almost worthless pennies, nickels and dimes, few would attempt an unpredictable AT process unless they were trying to hide something.  : )

NOTE: Don't forget to read our book as soon as Wallman and I get everything sorted out.  ; )  LOL

[FilthyBroke]

The more I look at it, the less I believe that it's AT.  The original TrueViews made the color look odd, but the new pics have helped to convince me.  Still wondering how it was stored though, the color (and toning pattern) is unusual.

How's that for flip-flopping?