CoinsAreFun
US Coins, World Coins, and More => US Coins, tokens and medals => Topic started by: JRocco on January 26, 2011, 06:36:12 PM
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I really love this series of coins. The history on these is as much as you are willing to learn. Now let me loose in this thread and I could go on for hours. Let me jump start this with one of my favorite variety coins because I am, at heart, a variety coin collector. First a little history.
1817
As we know, the mint suffered from a devastating fire in January of 1816 and was partially destroyed. There were no CBH's minted in 1816 and the following year 1817 the mint only produced the large cents and the CBH's. Add to this the disruption in supplies from the War of 1812 and you can see times were difficult at the mint. To put another time stamp on this time period, 1817 was the year the Erie Canal in upstate NY was started.
These coins are history.
Two major over dates are known for this year, one the 1817/4 of which only a handful are known to exist and command 6 figure plus price tags, the other being the 1817/3. This coin is one of my favorite over date coins as the over date is so prominent even in lower graded coins.
Here is the 1817/3, O-101a
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1817-3obv1.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1817-3rev.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1817-3od.jpg)
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Let me just add that these coins were all minted on a screw press until the year 1836 when the CBH were first struck using steam power. Prior to 1836, these were all screw press coins.
Imagine that - a screw press.
Not to get too far off topic on this CBH thread, but here is a very early depiction, actually the first depiction I am aware of, of a steam powered press on my 1814 Withymoor token.
(http://forums.collectors.com/include/uploadbox/viewfile.cfm?files=1814tokenobv%2Ejpg)
(http://forums.collectors.com/include/uploadbox/viewfile.cfm?files=1814tokenrev%2Ejpg)
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Great one to start out with :smiley-bounce016:
I was told this is an O-117 R4+ VF20 I bought it about 2-3 years ago for my type set and it cost me $80
I think I did ok on the price
(http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u312/coinarefun/7070%20Dansco%20Type%20Set%20album/1832CappedBusthalfdollar.jpg)
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Hey Stef, Yea I would say you did pretty good on that one :)
R4+ coins are hard to find.
Here is another nice over date
An 1829/1827 O-101
One thing neat about this over date is the 2 is a curl based 2 over a square based 2.
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1829-7OB.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1829-7RE.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1829-7date.jpg)
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(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb187/rrantique/P1010004-1.jpg)
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Out of all the US coinage, I do like the Bust Half the best. Very nice pieces :ThumbsUp;
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I love this series.
What a beautiful coin Irwin.
Here is a real tough one to find. This is the 1818 O-115a an R4+ variety.
This die marriage was struck using Obverse Die 12 and Reverse Die F with
the obverse die obviously breaking up.
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1818O-115aobv.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1818O-115arev.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1818O-115ahdr.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1818O-115adt.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1818O-115afc.jpg)
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Two neat 1811 varieties, the small 8 and large 8.
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1811pci00111.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1811pci007232.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1811O-104aobv1.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1811O-104arev1.jpg)
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Here is an 1820/19 O-102
Notice the variety characteristics on this piece. The central obverse design (ear/hair/clasp) are all weakly struck yet look at the strong peripheral strike on the stars. This series is tough to grade without knowing the series and even the big TPG's commonly get these VERY wrong.
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1820-19O-102obv.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1820-19O-102rev.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1820-19O-102date.jpg)
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Wow JRocco, great stuff.........keep em coming :party:
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Hey Stef,
As you know, I like this series a lot. :)
Here is really cool variety.
This coin was minted during a pretty tumultuous time in our history, 1812. This is the 1812 Overton 109a variety. Aside from a few minor oddities, this die suffered a very dramatic twist of fate. Apparently, as is most popularly believed, a large part of the screw press- one of the screws- broke off and fell between the dies during the striking of one of the coins between the prime state and this "a" state and resulted in some pretty dramatic damage to the die, most notably the reverse die.
In fact, if you look closely enough, you can see the screw threads as well as the screw bolt top damage on the resulting coins struck by this die pair. The die was later lapped or heavily polished to completely clean off the damaged area, but not before 3 strong individual die clashes occurred each one after the dies rotated and became more and more misaligned. Look at the area under the right (facing) wing and you can see 3 clean imprints of the letters R, T and Y from the obverse LIBERTY, all in upside down reversed fashion of course.
Another mystery is what the cause of this large round lump to the left of star 10 is and why it wasn't lapped off as it is seen on most coins from this die marriage even after "work" was done to the dies.
This one is just plain fun.
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1812O-109aobv.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1812O-109arev.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1812O-109ascr.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1812O-109arev3.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1812O-109almp.jpg)
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Wow JRocco, great stuff.........keep em coming :ThumbsUp;
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Thanks Irvin,
Here is a really cool CBH.
This is an overdate described as an 1824/2/0, but no one really knows for sure how many "oops" happened. It is also described in many texts as an 1824/Various.
This variety is also known for a very strong reverse strike. Look at this detail for a coin minted in 1824 on a screw press no less.
This is in an old slab that has a lot of cloudiness in the plastic - sorry.
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1824O-103obv-1.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1824O-103rev-1.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1824-2-0ndate.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/brdfc.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1824-2-0pwing.jpg)
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Many people talk about wanting original skin on a coin and immediately think wild rainbow colors spanning the ROYGBIV spectrum...iridescent pastels...deep blues and greens... well, for the most part they are completely wrong. Here is a nice coin, an 1819/8 Overton # 101 overstrike that shows some hints of nice originality. I LOVE this look on a nice classic coin. This is in high AU top TPG plastic so I guess they like this look also :)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1819-8half002we.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1819-8half024wer.jpg)
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There were several design changes in the CBH series, many involved the portrait of LIBERTY, but one major die change involved the bird on the reverse. The first 2 years of the series, 1807 and 1808 featured a very different bird design than is seen in the rest of the series. I think the early design shows a much more visually powerful bird, more proportionate and more muscular. A strong representation of our nations power and might. Unfortunately, the design was very tough with the early screw presses and resulted in very poor metal flow presenting itself as a weak strike commonly seen on the 1807 and 1808 coins as well as other die problems. The reverse die was drastically modified as one step to help with the problem. On the new design the shield is now wider, the birds feathers and talons have been changed, the arrowheads are larger and the arrow feathers have been moved. The period after UNUM has also been eliminated as well as other modifications. Here is a side by side showing the 2 designs. An 1808 reverse design on the left and the above 1824 reverse shown on the right. I will show a full pic of the 1808 below. Notice any obverse die changes?
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/CBHrevbrdspan.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1808hd2md-2.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1808hdr2md-2.jpg)
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jRocco, you have quite an extensive collection and up until your posts I never really considered the Capped Bust Half dollars. You have given some great information on this thread and I now know why it is so widely collected.
Great job :smiley-cool11:
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:party:(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb187/rrantique/Picture004-5-2.jpg)
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(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb187/rrantique/Picture006-4.jpg)
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb187/rrantique/Picture007-4.jpg)
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Hey Irvin,
Thanks for adding some of your coins to this thread.
Many of the toned CBH's that we see are coins that have been dipped and have re-toned either in albums or in coin envelopes. A smaller percentage have re-toned in coin cases, many times displaying as one sided toners because these cases were felt lined and unless the coins were rotated only one side was exposed to the air. Here is a coin that was dipped and has re-toned. This is, or for years has been an acceptable form of toning as these coins have been around for between 175 and 200 years and while many claim their coins have original skin - they don't. This one is in AU55 top plastic so the toning is acceptable. Looking closer at the toning progression you can see that this coin went through the early stages of toning and it is in a better phase at this time. The earlier stages of album toning show that less desirable...to me at least...blue rim toning with a bright white center. This is the look I like in a re-toned, album toned CBH.
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1827_Bust_Half_Black-1.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1827O-132UN.jpg)
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I agree J thanks .
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Be careful if you start collecting these Stef. They are really addicting. Here for example is another 1811.
This is the Overton 108. I could have been very happy with my other two 1811's I posted earlier...BUT NOOOOO
You just can't have enough of these CBH's.
All kidding aside, I do really like the look of this one and just had to have it when I saw it.
This variety is best known for the crude 8 which is just two crude overlapping circles.
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1811halfobv1.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1811halfrev.jpg)
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I love all the variety in this series. It must be remembered that these coins were hand struck which led to so many varieties.
The obverse master die only contained the portrait LIBERTY as the central device. Everything else was hand punched into the die:
the stars, the dentils and the date were all hand punched into EVERY die. In fact, the dentils were hand punched one at a time contrary to an older belief that a gang punch was used....imagine that.
The reverse master die only contained the bird and the outline of the shield as well as the EPU and scroll. Everything else was hand punched into the die: Again the dentils, the words UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, the crossbars and stripes on the shield as well as the 50 and C...imagine that too!
I guess you can see why they wanted every die to be used as long as possible and were lapped to clean up any striking clashes which led to the many different die states and die cracks as well as varieties in the series. Once this is realized it is understandable that you will see variations in the height of the letters and numbers as well as the star positions, letter positions and crossline and stripe positions. What a great series to study and enjoy.
Sometimes different letters or numbers were used depending upon what was punched into the working die. Take a look at these 2 different varieties of 1828 halfs. First is the Overton 108 this utilizes obverse die # 5 and Reverse die G.
The O-108 date shows a recut 8 as well as a knobbed, square base 2. The second coin is my 1828 O-104. This variety utilizes Obverse die # 2 and Reverse C. The O-104 date shows two 8's with slender lines and the number 2 shows a large open curled top with a curved base.
This series is soo much fun.
1828 O-108
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1828O-108obv1.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1828O-108rev1.jpg)
1828 O-104
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1828CBH104ob1.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1828CBH104re1.jpg)
The two dates for comparison
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1828O-108dt1.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1828-104date-1.jpg)
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Hey guys, lets see some of those CBH's I know you have out there.
One of the things I enjoy the most out of this series is the incredible amount of varieties to be found. Some are really tough and some are not as bad if you know what to look for. Here is one of those real tough ones period.
This is the 1824/21 O-102 an R5+ variety.
Even in this condition this is a 4 figure coin.
Let me quote from Edgar Souders book "Bust Half Fever" :
The 1824/21 O-101 is scarce in the lower circulated grades on up to EF-40. EF45 and AU examples aer very scarce and above this rare.
The 1824/21 O-102 is rare IN ANY GRADE !
The 1824/21 O-102 is in a class of its own and RARE in any grade from AG3 up ! In all of numismatics I doubt there are fifty to sixty of these existent-attributed or otherwise. On the O-102 reverse there is a die dot in the field between the scroll and the Eagles head.
I am very lucky to have this coin in my collection knowing there are hundreds of very strong CBH collectors that are missing this ubber rarity.
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1824-1Ov102obv-2.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1824-1Ov102r.jpg)
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Here is an 1831 O-113 and R4 variety.
The easiest PUP on this variety can be seen on the reverse as the weak or broken arrow shafts near the claw due to die lapping.
Notice also some variations on this die like the nice well defined eighth star while all the others are flat.
This is a good strike for this variety and this one is in 58 plastic, yet those stars are still flat.
You really have to know this series before you can accurately grade them, but this is where all the fun is.
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1831bustobv1.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1831bustrev1.jpg)
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1810 O-109 R3
This variety is struck using Obverse Die 8 and Reverse Die I. This was the only use of these dies.
This variety is known to have weak to no milling on both the obverse and reverse.
Sorry for the glare and the old scuffed up plastic slab.
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1810obv1.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1810rev2.jpg)
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Here is an 1832 O-105a
This is a very scarce R4 variety with approx 80-200 known examples.
It utilizes Obv 3-s2 and Rev D-s2
This variety utilizes the third usage of this obverse with the second usage of the reverse and
it shows little to no milling on both the obverse and reverse with all the letters and stars
drawn to the edges, This is a tough variety to find slabbed, especially in AU like this piece.
This variety was struck from badly deteriorated dies evident even on strongly struck examples.
Once again, sorry for the old scuffed slab.
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1832O-105aobv1-1.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1832O-105arev1-1.jpg)
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They are all so very beautiful and I am learning so much on the die varieties.....Thanks :ThumbsUp;
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Thanks Stef :)
Here is an 1817 O-105a, another R4 variety.
First a little background.
1817 was an interesting year at the mint. Only CBH's and large cents were struck in 1817, no other denomination was minted.
There were plenty of problems in the mint back in the 1815-1817 time span. There were shortages of gold and silver added to the fact that the War of 1812 severely disrupted the economy as well as it's ability to store and move supplies.
There was also the famous fire that destroyed most of the mint in January 1816 which shut down production leading to no 1816 coinage produced.
Other notables for this year include:
The beginning of the Mississippi river steamboat service
John Quincy Adams became the Secretary of State
The 1st Seminole War begins in Florida
Baltimore became the 1st US city lit by gas
Digging for the Erie Canal in NY begins with Clinton's Ditch
The Mississippi Territory is divided into Alabama Territory & Mississippi. Just to name a few.
Those sure must have been interesting times to live.
Look at the die cracks and clash marks on this variety.
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1817O105aoba.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1817O-105are-1.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1817O-105adt-1.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1817O-105astr-1.jpg)
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Wow that one has a lot clash. Very nice. :ThumbsUp;
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@JRocco, nice 1811 O-108! Great eye appeal on that one....love those earlier dates.
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Here is another one of those tough ones to find, and priced accordingly (unfortunately)
Here is the 1807 small stars. Talk about die cracks - just take a look.
Remember that the strike on these coins is typically very weak due to metal flow problems, especially seen on the birds left wing facing.
As Edgar Souders points out in his book Bust Half Fever:
"To give you a sampling of the time - history has recorded that in the late summer of 1807, the "CLEREMONT" was chugging from New York to Albany in just over 32 hours...The next time you hold an 1807 CBH in your hand try to imagine these small communities that relied on the steamboats for provisions, entertainment, and also the latest news of the "goings on" in the rest of the country. The very coin that you hold was part of this fledgling time in our country"
I love this coin. Sorry for all the pics - I can't help myself with this one.
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1807obvn-1.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1807revn-1.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1807date.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1807revc.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1807mark.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1807libepu.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1807b.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1807cleav.jpg)
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Here is an 1825 O-110
This coin utilizes Obverse die 7 and Reverse die I, an R2 variety.
I love this look in a CBH and while I did not capture the beauty of this one with
it's blue and green peripheral toning, the slab on this piece is a bad one as
can be seen on the glare in the third pic which made it hard, but you can get a hint at the toning that
covers this coin.
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1825half024258.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1825half026564.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1825halfrev50c.jpg)
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Here is an 1829 O-109a, an R4+ variety
Few neat PUPS (pick up points) for this variety:
The tops of all three A"S are filled at the top
A strong die line crosses the central branch joining the upper and lower pair of olive leaves
A few die lines are evident between the bust and the edge
A straight die line extends from the top left serif of the F (somewhat hidden in the toning on my piece)
Die prong is visible from the left wing under the birds head
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1829O-109obv123.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1829O-109rev123.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1829O-109apan.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1829O-109p2.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1829O-109wng.jpg)
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Here is another neat overdate in this series.
This is the 1814/13
This variety is very rare in EDS (early die state), a full R6 with most examples listed as O-101a such as this example. Most pieces show strong clashing which led to total obverse die failure. Most examples, like mine, show an almost complete full circular obverse die crack. Aside from the obvious date another common PUP is above the second letter T in STATES , there are 2 over-sized dentils. Remember that these dentils were hand struck onto each die. Look at all these clashes on the reverse, especially in the shield and note that the die also rotated between clashes. Such was life before steam die presses in the age of the screw press.
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1814over300133.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1814over3016.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1814-3star-1.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1814-3clsh2-1.jpg)
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Here is an interesting piece it is the Terminal Die State of the 1818 O-104a, or the 1818 O-104b listed as an R7
It is still controversial to some whether this die state should be classified as the "b" die state
Some PUPS on this variety:
The first 8 is punched a little low and leans toward the right and on the reverse, there is a triple segment in the milling below the lowest pair of leaves and a small die dot in the field below RI of AMERICA
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1818O-104a.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1818O-104arev.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1818crk.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1818dtcrk.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1818crkstr8.jpg)
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Here is an interesting piece it is the Terminal Die State of the 1818 O-104a, or the 1818 O-104b listed as an R7
It is still controversial to some whether this die state should be classified as the "b" die state
Some PUPS on this variety:
The first 8 is punched a little low and leans toward the right and on the reverse, there is a triple segment in the milling below the lowest pair of leaves and a small die dot in the field below RI of AMERICA
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1818O-104a.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1818O-104arev.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1818crk.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1818dtcrk.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1818crkstr8.jpg)
By gosh by golley she cracked her bust :D
I like this one very much! A lot of stuff going on and reminds me of dare I say.........VAM'ing Morgans ;)
However I do like this particular one, thanks for posting it JRocco
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Thanks Stef.
Here is a coin that I really have to dig out of the SB and re-image. These are old pics that I did a really poor job with. This coin is a stunner with strong album toning circling the entire coin though my images only show this partially. It is also an old slab as can be seen by the scratches on the plastic around the date. It is in an old NGC fattie so it is probably still toning :P
This is the 1833 O-101 with some easy PUPS
The 8 in the date is punched very high compared to the other numbers and especially when compared along the bottom
and the reverse shows a very high punch on the 5 in 50C
This coin also shows some of the situations faced when trying to grade these coins. This one is in AU53 plastic (although I see a 50)
and shows a very soft strike with little wear. A novice to this series would probably grade this much lower especially looking at the reverse strike.
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1833bustobv1-1.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1833bustrev-1.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1833date-1.jpg)
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Here is another interesting over-date in this series.
This is the 1827/6 O-101
This obverse was used 3 times, this marriage being the first.
This reverse die, Die A was used first used to strike the 1826 O-120, this marriage is the last use of this die.
The reverse die started to break up after the striking of the 1826, O-120a.
Look close at the reverse to see the signs of its break-up and eventual destruction.
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1827-6O-101ob.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1827-6O-101rev.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1827-7pandt.jpg)
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Here is an 1814 O-105a, also known as the 1814 Single Leaf R4
On this variety, the uppermost pair of leaves now only shows as one leaf. The upper berry appears to have no stem. The olive stem, edge of tail feathers, and claws are lighter than normal.
This is an interesting, tough variety.
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1814O-105aobvn.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1814O-105arevn.jpg)
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Here is the 1836 O-115 R3
This coin represents the end of an era in numismatics.
In 1836 the mint began using steam presses to mint it's coinage and stopped the screw presses.
1836 is the transitional year in the CBH series as there are both 1836 screw press and 1836 steam press varieties.
While the end product improved, it is tough to cheer the end of an era.
Here is an example in an old NGC 58 fattie.
A easy PUP for this variety:
The date is punched low with thick numbers and the 8 is re-cut along the entire top.
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1836O-115obv1.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1836O-115rev1.jpg)
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Speaking of 36's
Here is the 1836/1336 O-108 variety
The easiest PUP on this die variety is the 8 is cut over a 3 with the knob showing inside lower loop at left.
On the reverse, the lowest arrow shaft is broken, showing as a knob under the second claw and “50 C” is high, and the “5” has a sharply curved pointed top.
Sorry if the coin looks slightly out of round in my pics, the coin was really angled in the slab.
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1836-3OBV1.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1836-3REV.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1836-3date-1.jpg)
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1820 is one of the keys in this series.
It has the third lowest mintage of the series even when the overdate is included. I posted an overdate earlier in the thread but would like to add an 1820 O-103,
Sorry the color balance on these pics is off, they are old pics. The coin has a nice color.
This marriage utilizes Obverse die 3 and Reverse die C
The date is punched low and the 2 has a small curled base and a small curled top while the 0 is large.
The reverse shows narrow A's that have small serifs at the base.While it may be a little hard to see in my pics, the second T in STATES has been punched over first attempt after it was punched in too low.
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1820O-103obv.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1820O-103rev.jpg)
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1820 is one of the keys in this series.
It has the third lowest mintage of the series even when the overdate is included. I posted an overdate earlier in the thread but would like to add an 1820 O-103,
Sorry the color balance on these pics is off, they are old pics. The coin has a nice color.
This marriage utilizes Obverse die 3 and Reverse die C
The date is punched low and the 2 has a small curled base and a small curled top while the 0 is large.
The reverse shows narrow A's that have small serifs at the base.While it may be a little hard to see in my pics, the second T in STATES has been punched over first attempt after it was punched in too low.
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1820O-103obv.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1820O-103rev.jpg)
Very cool, thanks for posting that coin :smiley-cool11:
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Thanks Stef.
Here is another 1820, this one the O-108
This variety is known to have a very poor central obverse strike, and thus leads to some very erratic grading of this marriage. If you look for this one slabbed you have a good shot of scoring a very undergraded example for a very reasonable price. And for the price of 1820's that is a big deal. This one is in a 55 slab I believe and looks to be graded correctly. Notice how well the periphery/stars are struck on this example compared to the ear/clasp/hair detail. This variety uses a square bottomed curl top number 2.
1820's are easy to attribute because there are so few marriages, but an easy PUP on this one is star 5 is recut on the two lower inside points.
The reverse is interesting in and of itself. All 1820 O-108's are true die hubbed DDR's. The only doubled dies known in the series. The doubling is most easily seen on the lowest leaves and the birds talons.
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1820cbhobv.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1820cbhrev.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1820O-108leaves.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1820O-108arrows.jpg)
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I swear if you keep this up.........I will HAVE to get one really nice one, toned of course and start a type set 8)
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There really are some attractive CBH's out there Stef. Just be careful, once the fever hits it's over.
Here is a beautiful coin that you have to use a little imagination to really see. This is almost a black and white rendition of this very colorful CBH. I took this pic years ago with a really cheap point and shoot camera. I had to unsaturate the pic because the colors were off, but this one is a real looker. Nice high grade for an 1819 too. Someday I will dig this one out of the SB and re-image her.
This one is the 1819 O-111
Notice that the distance between the 1 and the 8 is a little wider than the distance between any of the other numbers. Really must have been something to hand punch everything back in the day.
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1819bustobva.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1819bustreva.jpg)
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I really like this coin, even though I couldn't get a good pic of it. It is a real nice gray with green poking thru the periphery. This is the 1809 O-109b R4.
Let me first show a couple of examples of the "a" die state. For those that may not follow this series, the "a" die state is an earlier state of the dies before they advanced, or in some cases deteriorated to the next, the "b" die state. Each die state has it's own rarity level, some with very different population numbers.
In the "a" die state there is the obvious crack thru AMERICA and what looks like raised segments between the letters that continue down past the last A and along the points of the arrowheads.
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1809O-109aAM.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1809O-109a50.jpg)
Here is the "b" die state. What separates the "b" die state from the "a" die state is on the reverse the die break thru AMERICA gets heavier and shows broken patches at the arrowheads, this crack extends along the base of 50C and then across the tips of the leaves to the edge below the wing tip. The crack extends along the legend to above the F in OF.
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1809O-109bobv.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1809O-109brev.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1809O-109bAm.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1809O-109b50.jpg)
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The 1823 O-106a is an interesting die marriage.
The 1823 CBH's include some interesting variations on the number 3.
The most popular are the broken 3, the patched 3 and the ugly 3, as well as the perfect 3.
Well this one, the O-106a is known as the Tampered 3. In this die state the overly tall 3 has been modified to strengthen the joint connecting the top and bottom loops. Interesting stuff. I was really intrigued by this and wanted to study this coin in hand. I actually purchased and own a second O-106a to help with a comparison. This is an interesting die marriage in the CBH series.
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1823O-106aobv.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1823O-106arev.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1823Overton106aobv.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1823Overton106arev.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1823Overton106adt.jpg)
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Here is another neat variety, the 1818 O-105
This is the second and last usage of this obverse die and the third and last usage of this reverse die. Most specimens are not well struck.
Some easy PUPS on this marriage:
The stars on the left have points that vary widely in length, and there is a strong die crack through the top of star 12 on most examples.
An easy ID on this one shows triple segments on the reverse below the lowest leaves showing as one large dentil.
My example shows strong die clashing that actually shows the entire birds wing in the obverse field behind the head, showing of course reversed, upside down and inverted.
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1818O-105obv-1.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1818O-105rev-1.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1818O-105fc-1.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1818O-105wng-1.jpg)
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Here is the 1821 O-103
This coin utilizes the same reverse die that was used to strike the really tough to find 1820 O-107. That coin had a nice example graded AU58 sold in 2010 for a neat cool $30,000.00 with the juice. Boy I wish I owned an example of that variety.
Notice the reverse of this coin. The right serifs of the A's and the left serifs of the E's are missing.
There are also triple segments in the milling below the left pair of leaves.
These are poor pics of a nice coin.
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1821O-103obv.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1821O-103rev.jpg)
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I have long liked this series. Especially years ago, when you could buy AU-58 examples with the
appearance of a MS-64 and MS-65 with slight rub on the high points. At that time these coins were
under priced and under appreciated. It is truly among the truly beautiful series of coins.
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I agree Bear and J Has shown us a remarkable collection of this great series. [url=http://www.freesmileys.or
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Thanks Irvin.
Yes Abe will surely be missed.
Both Abe and his father were Pharmacists, as am I, and we both shared that same calling to give 110% to help those in need in our chosen profession. It was a bond we both felt strongly.
Let me kick this thread back to life.
Here is one that he liked.
This is an 1812 O-105
Look for the doubled dentil over the third A on the reverse.
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1812o.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1812r.jpg)
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That's a sweet Bust Half and a nice tribute to Bear. I'm sure he's smiling! :)
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That's a sweet Bust Half and a nice tribute to Bear. I'm sure he's smiling! :)
I agree!
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This is going to be hard trying to remember what I already posted, but I'll try.
There were 13 die pairings for the 1823 CBH. I have posted a few but here is the O-103
This variety shows a low date with a curled 3 that has a slight lean to the left and has a large indented centering dot on the obverse.
The main PUP on the reverse is the second A has a defective right base which is notably higher than the M.
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1823halfo1.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1823halfr1.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1823refAM1.jpg)
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Here are 2 coins I purchased together from a CBH nut. These are the 1827 O-109 and the 1827 O-110. Both of these coins are listed as R4 varieties with 120-160 pieces known to exist. These 2 coins both share the same reverse die paired with 2 different obverses. The O-109 obverse die 6 utilizes a slender curled 2 with the serif being upturned, small sharp and slanted out toward the top of the 7 and on most pieces there are a series of raised die dots and ridges on the neck just below the ear. The obverse of O-110 utilizes obverse die 7 which shows large stars that are very sharp and very close to the milling with some points almost touching the dentils.
Both coins use reverse die I which is characterized by the first 2 lines of stripes 1, 2 and 3 being unfinished and improperly joined at their lower ends to the shield. This gives a stair step appearance to the first 3 lines in the shield.
1827 O-109
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1827O-109obv.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1827O-109re1.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1827O-109strps.jpg)
1827 O-110
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1827O-110obv.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1827O-110rev.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1827O-110strps.jpg)
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Here is a cool and unique variety. The 1822 O-107 "Button Cap"
The O-107 utilizes obverse 7 and is characterized by a button that can be seen at the folded down crown of her cap. This is only seen on this variety.
The reverse, reverse F shows the words of the legend close together with only 1 mm separating the D-S, S-O and F-A at their closest points while all the letters are well separated.
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1822O-107ob1.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1822O-107rev1.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1822O-107button.jpg)
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Here is an 1830 O-115
The obverse on this variety shows numerous diagonal die lines below bust, from date to star 1. The 3 is punched low. There is a raised elongated lump that shows on neck, left of curl.
On the reverse the upper tail feather pierces the olive stem, forming a tiny knob. The 5 in 50C has an open loop, and a short straight V-shaped top. Stripes and crossbars are sharply struck, and the crossbars slant upwards to the right. Lines 1 & 2 of stripe 3, and line 2 of stripe 4, extend too far down.
Pardon the old hazy plastic seen in the pics.
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1830obv.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1830rev.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1830O-115mark.jpg)
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Here is another variety from 1827. This is the 1827 O-117
Some characteristics of this die marriage are on the obverse the date is set high and there is a large curled “2” with a thick base. The thin stand of “2” is nearly broken off of base.
On the reverse the C of 50C is higher than “50”, and “5” is recut, showing on left of upright. “MERI” nearly touch at the base.
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1827O-117obv.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1827O-117rev.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1827O-117date-1.jpg)
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Here is an 1813 O-107 R4
This marriage utilizes obverse 5 and reverse F
Some characteristics of this obverse die include multiple die lines in the field at the right of the upper ribbon end. Dr. Peterson calls them a “comb”. Star 10 is recut at its lower inside point. The 8 is too large. Clashing of the scroll is commonly seen.
The reverse shows a die line that extends horizontally from upper leaf tip to dentil. AM nearly touch at the base and A is slightly higher. There is a fine die crack from above the last S through the O to the scroll and the crown of the cap usually shows as a clash at 50C and the arrows.
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1813O-107obv1.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1813O-107rev1.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1813O-107obvrib.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1813O-107rev50.jpg)
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Here is an 1832 O-120a R3
This marriage utilizes obverse 13 and reverse L-s2
Some characteristics of this variety include:
Obverse - There is recut serif on the number 1 at its tip, showing at left. On this LDS, a crack shows at the rim by star 3, to lower chin, neck, curls, and ends at edge by star 10. There is also a crack at the base of the date that runs left under the bust. Most stars are flat.
Reverse - The eagle is entirely devoid of all tail feathers. The curve of the upper right margin of shield extends too far left. The A in STATES is rotated clockwise, and elevated above adjacent letters.
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1832O-120ob-1-1.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1832O-120re-1-1.jpg)
The obverse crack is so severe the coin has 2 planes or 2 different levels
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1832O-120crk.jpg)
The shield on this variety is weakly struck from the dies not from wear.
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1832O-120shield.jpg)
No tail feathers at all
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1832O-120notail.jpg)
Misplaced A in STATES
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1832O-120STATES.jpg)
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Here is an 1829 O-111a R2
I love this coin with it's nice old surfaces.
This marriage utilizes Obverse 6-s2 and Reverse H
Some characteristics include:
Obverse - The 9 shows recutting on it's left side and the mouth and lips are very open. The stars are usually drawn to the edge in this die state.
Reverse - The top of the 5 is recut and the tip of the upper arrow feather extends to the left. Many of the crosslines extend well to the left and right of the shield. The second and third A's (A2 and A3) are filled at the top.
Sorry about the scratched plastic. It is in a really old small ANACS slab
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1829O-111aobv.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1829O-111arev.jpg)
Look at this beautiful face...
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1829O-111amouth.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1829O-111ashield-1.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1829O-111aAMER.jpg)
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Here is a neat variety, the 1817 O-106a
This is known as the 1817 single leaf or the Comet Head.
Some characteristics of this variety are:
Obverse: Heavy die defect ridge shows from top of her cap to the milling above star 8, resulting in this obverse being called the “Comet Head”. Low date has 81 much closer than 18 or 17. The upper forecurl forms a loop in front of the headband, and the mouth is open. Center dot shows on neck.
Reverse: Due to heavy lapping, the upper pair of leaves now only shows as a single leaf, the upper one. The bold horizontal die line protruding from the tip of the remaining leaf is the tip of the missing lower leaf. A die crack shows from the upper berry, through the left wing tip, gradually going upwards through UNITED to the top of the D, and down through middle of the S forming a lump to the right of the S, and ending at the top of T.
This is a tough variety to hunt down and I am happy with this piece in my collection even with the obverse scratch and odd reverse toning that has a rubber band toning appearance.
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1817O-106aobv.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1817O-106arev.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1817O-106aleaf.jpg)
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Here is the 1835 O-108 R3
This variety utilizes obverse 6 and reverse F
Some characteristics of this variety include:
Obverse - A fine semi-circular die crack can be seen near star 5 to star 10 with another crack at the base of the date. Star 11 is sharply recut at the upper 3 points.
Reverse - the 5 has a short straight top and the loop is nearly closed. The left side of the I in UNITED is recut with a shadow if the first strike to the left. There are short vertical rays usually visible from the rim near 50C and the lower olive leaves.
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1835O-108obv-3.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1835O-108rev-3.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1835O-108obstr-1.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1835O-108reov-1.jpg)
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Here is another 1828, this one is the 1828 O-112 R3
This variety utilizes Obverse 7 and Reverse J
Neat variety. This obverse has a square base 2 and small 8's with the numbers being thick and close together. For a comparison, the 1828 O-108 I posted earlier in the thread has a square based 2 with large 8's and the 1828 O-104 I posted has a large curled 2 with large slender 8's. Gosh I love this series of coins. On earlier die states there are several horizontal lines to the left of the 1 and between the end of the bust and the milling. These lines are commonly lapped off on later die states.
The reverse has die defect lines connecting the arrowheads and sports a nice recut C in 50C, this also is lapped off except in earlier die states.
My coin also shows a nice example of rusted dies/pitted dies with the result seen to the left of the arrow feathers and in between the birds talons.
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1828Nobv1-1.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1828Nrev1-1.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1828date-1.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1828arrws-1.jpg)
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Gosh JRocco.....I keep learning more and more.
They are a very interesting series. :smiley-cool11:
Thanks for posting them!
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(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb187/rrantique/36_1_11.gif)
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Thanks guys, you can see why it is so easy to get hooked on this series.
Here is a coin that I have had in the SB for probably the last 10 years and I only have this old set of pics of her. I have to dig her out to re-image one of these days. She sits in 35 plastic and is a nice example of an old dirty crusty CBH. This is the 1813 O-101 also known as the 1813 50C/UNI
The obverse on this variety shows a broad 8, and the 81 is closer than 18 or 13.
The reverse is interesting on this variety.
John Reich started punching UNI from UNITED about 90 degrees off. It shows under the 50 C. Let me quote one of the bust nuts here "It is likely the error was caused because the die was upside down, with eagle’s feet at the top. Under magnification, Reich could easily have mistaken the lower arrowhead, which was then at the top, for the left wing tip. Reich’s eyesight was known to be failing him by 1813."
One of the fun varieties in this series.
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1813oUNI.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1813rUNI.jpg)
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In reference to the 1813 50C/UNI it is important to remember a few things back then at the mint.
Sorry if this is boring, but it is important if you want to understand the way these varieties are made.
The Master Die (MD) that was used for the obverse only had an incuse "backwards" engraving of the bust of Liberty. Even the words LIBERTY were not engraved into this MD, it was only an engraving of her bust, face, cap and hair. In reverse of course. The reverse MD only included an engraving of the bird with a blank area for the shield as well as the scroll which did not include any of the lettering, E PLURIBUS UNUM.
This MD was used to produce the Master Hub (MH) by slowly turning it in a screwpress against a softened MH which then showed as a relief on the MH similar to a finished coin - it was raised not incuse and forward not backward. This work was done very carefully to protect the MD which was a very difficult, hard product to produce. Several MH's could be made from this one MD in future years.
These MH's were inspected and touched up with a graver or chisel if needed. The lettering LIBERTY on the headband and E PLURIBUS UNUM on the scroll were hand punched into the MH at this point.
The next phase involved pressing a softened Working Die (WD) on the screwpress which produced an incuse, backward die that still only included the face, bust, cap and hair of Liberty on the obverse WD and the incuse, backward bird and scroll on the reverse.
At this point the fun begins. In the early years Reich would begin adding the dentils...one by one. This was followed by then adding smaller devices, like the stars to the Working Dies. Remember that these were punched in backwards and one at a time. These sometimes had to be touched up a bit to sharpen the cavity and this leads to the common re-cut stars/date/letters etc often seen in this series. It is also because of this individual punching of the numbers, letters, stars that lead to all the wonderful varieties seen from one WD to the next WD.
It also shows why these dies were used even after they began to break or crack and why they were so often lapped or worked on after a strong clash which also led to interesting die states and further varieties seen in the series. A LOT of time and effort went into these dies and they wanted to get as much use out of them as possible.
While the stars and lettering may look to be very similar from WD to WD they are not. No two varieties are exactly the same. Close inspection will show that there are differences between every working obverse and reverse die in the series. Even the stripes and crosslines are hand punched into every working die. Look close at some of the examples posted in this thread and you will begin to see more and more examples of the hand work involved in producing these coins.
You can see how the discovery of a new variety or new WD makes the true collector base of this series go nuts with excitement not to mention the price of the coin go through the roof. Think about when you only have a handful of examples of a particular die that might be the result of die breaking after a strong clash early in the life of the run like on the 1817/4 variety.
There is a lot of discovery and history to be learned studying this series of coins and that is half the fun.
Edited to add - Some of the PUP's used to differentiate the different dies show the variations seen from one die to the next. I do not include all the diagnostic features when I talk about a variety because they are somewhat over the top for most but the avid collector. But to name a few commonly used PUPS.
Each star tip points to a specific area of the dentil...the center, lower edge, lower half or even between the dentils.
Look at star 7, it points to a specific location on the headband or hair curl.
Where does star 1 point? Star 8 ? Star 13?
Look at the relationship between the D in UNITED and the E in EPU.
Each of the A's in USA point to a particular segment of the dentil as the stars do.
Look at the relationship between the T in STATES and the I in EPU
Look at each line and stripe in the shield - they are in different places from one variety to the next.
This is some of what goes in to distinguishing one variety from another.
Just look at the last 2 examples I have posted.
Look at star 7 on the 1813 50C/UNI
The inner point of the star points to the center of the haircurl and it's distance can be measured.
Now look at star 7 on the previous coin, the 1828 O-112
The inner point of star 7 points to the junction of the haircurl and the headband and it's distance can also be measured.
This is because star 7 was hand punched into each die on each variety.
Cool stuff for sure. In fact it is fun being a variety nerd.
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Here is an 1824 O-111
This variety utilizes Obverse 10 and Reverse J
Quick PUPS on this marriage include large stars with sharp points close to the milling on the obverse, a large centering dot on the neck with a circle around it as well as the base of the 8 in the date is higher than the neighboring 1 and 2. The reverse shows lettering also close to the milling as well as line 2 of stripe 3 and line 3 of stripe 6 penetrating to the third crossbar on the shield and a die line that extends down and to the left from the last lower feather on the upper arrow.
One thing that makes this variety interesting is that it is commonly found with doubled or even tripled profiles.
Doubled profiles are are most commonly seen on the years 1823, 1824 and 1825. It was originally thought that the effect was from the hubbing process regarding the hubbing of the WD, but there are some varieties like this 1824 O-111 that do show doubling and some that do not, so it is not a hubbing issue.
These are the result of mechanical error or as is a more common phrase, machine doubling. It is thought that the screwpresses were old and the parts were worn and the parts showed some movement...a sideways slip either during or just after the striking of the coin. Now why is this seen on some parts of the coin and not others? Well heck if I know ;)
Something happens at that moment of impact that we may never fully understand.
Take a look at this 1957D Lincoln as a great example. Look at this really strong machine doubling seen on the date and mint mark.
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/57dMDcoin1-1.jpg)
Now take a look at the entire obverse.
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/57dMDcoin-1.jpg)
How the heck could the date and MM show such extreme machine doubling and not the entire obverse? Maybe someone can offer a hypothesis?
Here is the 1824 O-111 with commonly seen profile doubling.
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1824O-111obd.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1824O-111rd.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1824O-111dbf.jpg)
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Here is an 1813 O-108 R3
This obverse was used twice, the O-108 and O-109. I think I posted an 1813 O-109a earlier in the thread. That is the 1813 single leaf variety.
The O-108 was struck before the O-109 and is characterized by partly to fully flat stars with narrow milling that is often incomplete. A large amount of the O-108's and O-109's show rim damage that occurred during the minting process, especially on the reverse adjacent to AMERICA.
The date on this die displays a broad 8 and the second 1 is lower than the other digits.
On the reverse, the AM are separated at the bases and level and there is a very large centering dot between crossbars 4 and 5.
Even with these old pics you can clearly see this die has a very strong clash, I wonder how these dies held up sometimes. This die went on to produce the O-108a die state then the O-109 followed by the O-109a single leaf variety - single leaf because of severe die lapping to remove some of the clash marks incurred during the life of the die.
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1813O-108obv1.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o69/JRocco1/1813O-108rev1.jpg)
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Great thread......you need to keep it going!
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Just wanted to tell everyone how I much enjoyed reading about and viewing the CBHs in this thread. ;D
Thanks to all for your insights and photographs, they provided much inspiration to me as an aspiring collector.
My favorite silvers display the steelgray, almost purple toning, my favorite saltwater coins are recovered with this.
I've acquired most of my collection thru site research and the use of metal detectors.
One of the coins that I have purchased is this 1834 large letter large date,
I was told this was the last year of issue with edge lettering, I do not know more about it than that.
Mr. Rocco, I liked your quote "Cool stuff for sure. In fact it is fun being a variety nerd."
I'm looking forward to learning more about the history of the US Mints coin production procedures in its earlier years, I had no idea that so much handwork was used prior to 1836.
Again, thanks to everyone who shared their knowledge and photos.
best wishes! Herbie.
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Okay Rocco........when are you going to post some more? [url=http://www.freesmileys.or