What is it like swimming in the deep end of the coin pool?

[bear]

While I have always bought medium cost coins, I have never swam in the 10,000 - 20,000 end of the pool.

at this level even nice looking coins may not be as strong for the grade as one would like. While most of the

truly expensive coins I bought, had no problem making the cut at CAC, some of the mid level coins did not.

This is due to the fact that many coins that are truly nice have been cracked out and pushed to the next higher

grade as just barely made its. The coins were dipped and upgraded. The problem is this, at a very high grade level

the difference become as subtle as a coin having a bit too little luster as compared to a CAC coin or the overall look

of the coin is too much on the chalky white level rather then the more subtle deep mellow luster that one sees thru

original skin. It takes not only a discerning eye, but a ruthlessly objective and experienced eye for expensive coins at

the MS or PR 66, 67 and 68 levels. While PCGS and CAC are certainly not above making grading errors, because they do,

when you have both together on a coin, there is an excellent chance that you are looking at a top of the line, solid for the grade

coin. I did make some purchasing errors, but having become aware of them, I quickly made the corrections. Now there are several

coins that I do not agree with the CAC rejection. These coins will remain in my collection. While I place great value on CAC, my own

experience does not always have to agree with Johns grading eye.



At these high levels of collecting, while we may make less number of errors, the cost of each error is higher then it would be on more

numerous errors at a lower cost per error. Also the subtlety in grading high grade coins requires a new level of expertise that must be

obtained and rather rapidly I might add. Based upon my previous experience on mid grade coins, my learning curve has been rather

steep and the tuition though not prohibitive was a bit painful. All things in life are learning experiences, one either learns or continues on

blithely in ignorance, for their collecting careers.


Never be afraid of mistakes, we all make them. Not learning from your mistakes, that is a sign of true stupidity. Not admitting your

mistakes to others is arrogance or embarrassment. However if we advanced collectors wont admit to making mistakes, how are newer

collectors to feel when they believe they are all alone in making buying mistakes.

[acan451]

That was a well written and most interesting piece.
I relley enjoyed it and look forward to more of the same
Thank you
Bear   

[Sonorandesertrat]

What I find interesting is not that Bear (as a collector) made mistakes. Rather, supposedly knowledgeable dealers (some of whom emphasize catering to 'high-end' clientele) sold low-end coins to Bear. Presumably, these dealers did not suffer financially as a result of buying 'mistakes'---they simply passed these coins on to others. I believe that there are several lessons to be gleaned from this.

[coinsarefun]

I have had great experiences with dealers and terrible experiences. That's a entirely new thread!

I will go out on a limb here and say that I don't necessarily think that high end dealers sold bear or any other collector low end coins.

I think for the most part very high end dealers are ok when dealing in very high price coins. In my opinion the coins that were sold to bear were properly graded, but as high as they can be graded, maybe this is why they were not CAC'd. Now CAC isn't necessary the "be all" and "almighty coin guru's" either. I look at them as adding insurance on an investment.

Yes, it is important to have an investment coin PCGS, Secure Plus, CAC'd coin. This is the holy grail when it comes to profit on the investment coins when they are to be sold.

Coin dealers whether high end or not are like all other human beings, some are good and some are bad. Some will take advantage and bury you in a high priced deal. And when I say this I am in no way sticking up for them, but if there is a very high profit to be made some  will take advantage of this......lets face facts. its human nature.

It happens in every aspect of life whether you are buying a car, home or any other large purchase the salesman will favor himself/herself every time.

Now, as a collector or consumer purchasing a home, car, coins or any other investment the responsibility is still up to you to investigate and due diligence before you make your purchase. In bear's case where he is trying to put the best collection together
in a very short time and not being in the best of health, has made some purchase mistakes has paid for those mistakes, but at least he is doing this now and not letting an undesirable coin into the collection where even years from now will still not be a good investment.

Bear.......I think what you have posted is a very good synopsis of high end investment coin collecting.
There is really nothing I can add to what you have said and applaud you for taking the time to write about your experiences
this will hopefully help many new and old collectors!

Stefanie

[Sonorandesertrat]

"...I will go out on a limb here and say that I don't necessarily think that high end dealers sold bear or any other collector low end coins. ..."

This happens more often than collectors realize.  By low end, I meant low end for the grade.  I believe that Bear did note that some of this coins did not receive a green bean after CAC review.
Another issue is that a number of high-end dealers will sell coins that have negligible investment potential to investors at the time of sale, typically puffing up whatever they have in stock at a given time.

[coinsarefun]

"...I will go out on a limb here and say that I don't necessarily think that high end dealers sold bear or any other collector low end coins. ..."

This happens more often than collectors realize.  By low end, I meant low end for the grade.  I believe that Bear did note that some of this coins did not receive a green bean after CAC review.
Another issue is that a number of high-end dealers will sell coins that have negligible investment potential to investors at the time of sale, typically puffing up whatever they have in stock at a given time.

I will concur regarding that

[bear]

That is a generalization. For the most part only Legend did not have any rejected coins, because they

sell only CAC coins Any coins they buy, that do not CAC, legend sells wholesale to other dealers..

 Several other dealers had one coin each and one dealer, since deleted, had three coins that

did not make the cut. You live and you learn. However, my Golden Circle of Dealers is still intact minus one.

[bear]

My dealers do try to sell me strong coins for the grade, but even they have some

difficulty determining such when a coin happens to be truly lovely but at the weak end

of its exalted grade.