From a collector's standpoint, what constitutes AT toning versus NT?

[FilthyBroke]

As a casual collector, all that science of tarnish, corrosion, etc. is interesting, but for the general public's understanding, define how you see artificial toning versus natural.

Is it intent, as in -  Purposely storing a silver coin in a yellow paper 2x2 or similar method for a period of time (knowing full well that yellow 2x2s can cause toning)?

Or is it more diabolical - Foreign substances or heat applied or introduced in order to rapidly accelerate toning?

Let's see how collectors define AT (in a calm and civil manner )

[FilthyBroke]

OK, I'll define how I see it-

1. If toning is accelerated, that's AT. 

2. If a coin is purposely introduced to substances not normally found in the collecting world, that's AT. 

3. If a coin is merely stored in an album or paper holder (although the intent is the inevitable toning that the coin will attain), it's still naturally toning with no outside influences.


Agree or disagree?

[coinsarefun]

Where's Walmann when we need him



Boom would be a great addition to this post

[walmann]

OK, I'll define how I see it-

1. If toning is accelerated, that's AT. 

2. If a coin is purposely introduced to substances not normally found in the collecting world, that's AT. 

3. If a coin is merely stored in an album or paper holder (although the intent is the inevitable toning that the coin will attain), it's still naturally toning with no outside influences.


Agree or disagree?

Point three can be in contradiction to point one. Many albums and paper have agents that accelerate toning.

My view is such that toning is acceptable if it is apparent that other agents have had no impact or at worse little to no impact on the toning. Whether toning is pleasing, a separate issue of acceptability, varies greatly coin to coin and is dependent upon individual taste.

There are some substances that are "normal" or at least common in the collecting world that are intended to remove toning which I find as unacceptable as artificial toning. On the other hand there are cases where coins have been treated for preservation purposes in such a way the integrity of the coin is not damaged in my opinion. Placing a coin inside a solid acrylic block is not one of those methods.

[FilthyBroke]

Boom would be a great addition to this post

I read through that one, and it got me thinking about this topic.  Like it or not, people do things some of us won't agree with.  When the coins are under different ownership, it's out of our hands. 

It should serve as a reminder that these things are going on.  I'm much more aware of the AT problem now than I was a year ago.  I've only collected for about three years, so I'm just recently becoming aware of issues like this.

[FilthyBroke]

<<There are some substances that are "normal" or at least common in the collecting world that are intended to remove toning which I find as unacceptable as artificial toning.>>


I thought of that after posting....I meant the albums and storage methods rather than MS70 and other chemicals used by some.  I don't hold with some of that stuff, either.

[walmann]

When I think further about this issue in my eyes it goes beyond the issue of artificial and natural.

There are many things that can happen to a coin "naturally" that I view as undesirable and there are a few (very few)things that may be done to a coin artificially (intentional and controlled) that may be beneficial and desirable to a coin.

I guess for me instead of the terms artificial or natural I look at it more as issues of what is detrimental and beneficial to the coin.

[FilthyBroke]

When I think further about this issue in my eyes it goes beyond the issue of artificial and natural.

There are many things that can happen to a coin "naturally" that I view as undesirable and there are a few (very few)things that may be done to a coin artificially (intentional and controlled) that may be beneficial and desirable to a coin.

I guess for me instead of the terms artificial or natural I look at it more as issues of what is detrimental and beneficial to the coin.

Desirable vs. undesirable spans the whole hobby, though, not just toning.  The look is definitely what it comes down to, but it's nice to know that it's not a creation in a 'lab' but more a condition of age.

[Larry]

Well, you won't get any argument from me on what has ben stated here.  I believe it shows that as collectors, we know what we would like to see in a coin, and we don't like it when surfaces are altered by anybody.  Left loose in a drawer that remains closed for 40 years is probably okay.  Taking it out every month to wreck it some more is a tragedy, for any coin.

I have no argument with reasonable toning influenced by paper envelopes, but I prefer to find them protected inside the envelope by cotton liner/sleeve.  That's the way I receive most of the Conder Tokens I purchase.  Cotton liners or 2x2's may be best, imho.  2x2's are usually a terrific way to store coins, and slabs seem okay, too. Of course, if the safe deposit box ends up below the water level inside the bank, it's not so great no matter what they are in, except...

One dealer I know puts all of his coins inside Tupperware™ and squeezes the container, then covers  them.  A partial vacuum is created that way, and is usually still there when he opens them.  He said it is the best method he had found.  ; )

I have also found that Zip-Lok type bags/envelopes, the teensy ones, do not seem to harm a coin, though some mild toning may occur in there.  My mom put a bunch away in those bags, but they should not be handled much, and when handled, should be handled very carefully.  But I would never use such a storage method.

[coinsarefun]

Lets start out with a few definitions. A quick Google search results for:


Artificial:

       
1. Made by humans; produced rather than natural.
       
2. Brought about or caused by sociopolitical or other human-generated forces or influences
   
3. Made in imitation of something natural; simulated

4. Not genuine or natural