CoinsAreFun
Open Forum => General Discussions => Topic started by: FilthyBroke on December 06, 2009, 12:11:40 PM
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As I look over my collection, I am reminded that I actually have very few "high grade" coins (numerically speaking). Instead, I have a hand selected group that are here for a combination of reasons.
Artistic value, historic value, eye appeal, and affordability.
Finding coins that fall into at least three of these areas is a challenge, but that is what it's about to me. I can overlook one of the fist two if a coin meets the other three requirements. I don't even assign grades to my coins much anymore, not that I couldn't. But for me, eye appeal overrules assigned grades any day. I'd take an appealing XF or AU over a spotty MS with little doubt. I know that less wear is better, but it isn't the deciding factor for me, just a part of the bigger picture.
Well, it works for me, anyway. What are your prerequisites for purchasing a coin?
** (Just my thoughts, and subject to change ;))
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It's simple for me, eye appeal, eye appeal, eye appeal :)
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When it comes to numeric grading of mint state coins I feel the current system that uses increments of single points is far too subjective and in truth is an impossible grading system in itself to be accurate.
If single increments of grading are so accurate why is it we do not seen coins graded as 41, 42, 43, 44 etc. It appears not to be applicable to the lower grades and in truth it is not practically applicable to the higher states.
The issue of strike or die state is often ignored or not given the weight most system proclaim to apply to those issues as well.
I guess as already stated one estimate of a coins eye appeal is what is important in weighing if a coin is pleasing or acceptable, not a numerical grade assigned by a third party grader.
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When it comes to numeric grading of mint state coins I feel the current system that uses increments of single points is far too subjective and in truth is an impossible grading system in itself to be accurate.
If single increments of grading are so accurate why is it we do not seen coins graded as 41, 42, 43, 44 etc. It appears not to be applicable to the lower grades and in truth it is not practically applicable to the higher states.
The issue of strike or die state is often ignored or not given the weight most system proclaim to apply to those issues as well.
I guess as already stated one estimate of a coins eye appeal is what is important in weighing if a coin is pleasing or acceptable, not a numerical grade assigned by a third party grader.
Exactly. I can't recall the number of times I've made a (TPG slabbed) U.S. coin purchase online only to find out that the TPG's opinion of the grade was loose or that they were willing to overlook a serious distraction. I just can't trust their consistency. As an example, the ms63 t1 buffalo nickel that I own looks better than an ms65 I picked up as an upgrade. :( I lost a few bucks when I resold it, but it also serves as a learning experience. I have many other examples but won't bore you all with more ramblings. ;)
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The 70 point grading system is confusing,as is the 100 point grading system used by this British slabber; http://www.cgs-uk.biz (http://www.cgs-uk.biz) .
Whatever has happened to the good old-fashioned 7 point grading system from G right up to Unc.?
Aidan.
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The 70 point grading system is confusing,as is the 100 point grading system used by this British slabber; http://www.cgs-uk.biz (http://www.cgs-uk.biz) .
Whatever has happened to the good old-fashioned 7 point grading system from G right up to Unc.?
Aidan.
Thanks for the link, Aidan. I haven't seen this site before.
I do see several sellers who still use the seven point system, and don't mind it a bit. Good pictures can tell you a lot about a coin.
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I agree completely. It is my firm belief that the advent of TPGs and the 70-point grading system have caused more degradation to our hobby than anything else. Coins have become simply a commodity, an investment to be encapsulated in a hunk of plastic and traded like stocks. Many dates of U.S. coins are impossible for average collectors to own because of this.
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Excellent thread. I agree. Numerical grades mean nothing to me. When I am looking at a coin to purchase, first I have to see what it is, obviously. Next, I have to look at the asking price. I am on a limited income so that plays probably the biggest role; there is so much I want, but very little I can have, as I just can't afford much. As much as I may love a coin, I simply cannot justify buying a coin and not food, for instance. Would I love to be able to buy whatever I wanted and not have to worry about if I could afford it? Yes, without question. But I know it will never happen. At least I can dream.
Next on the list comes the condition of the coin. I am not as picky as some collectors and there are flaws I will accept that other people might not. (No holes unless minted that way for world coins, no polishing or whizzing, no fingerprints. Obviously no fakes or altered coins either). I would knowingly and willing accept other forms of flaws, because I would rather have a damaged coin then no coin at all.
Is the coin toned? Many people like that...I do not. When I am looking at my coins, I like them to appear as the mint made them. With proper handling and storage, In Theory, a coin can remain as minted for hundreds of years, I believe. Even as such, toning is not nessicarily a deal breaker, especially on older coins. I like the look of even, gray toning in fact, and own several coins exhibiting this toning factor. Bright colors on coins turns me off. (Sorry Stephanie!). I won't argue that some are in fact beautifull, small round pieces of abstract art...they just aren't for me.
If a coin is circulated, which, to be in my price range, it has to be unless a new modern, there are levels of circulation I look for. I don't like a lot of scratches, but I don't mind heavy wear.
There are coins where cleaning doesn't even bother me. I would not EVER do it myself, but if somebody else does it, well, I can't change the past. I am not too fond of coins that have been rubbed, but a dipping, in some instances, is not a deal breaker. Maybe it is the ancient collector in me!
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I look for many things in a coin I what to add to my collection. I like strong strikes, clean sufaces, some toning is ok as long as it does not take away from eye appeal.
Let me go a little OT here.
Myself, I think the TPGS have lost it when it comes to grading. What do I mean ? I've seen coins graded AU-58 that are MS-62 at best. Also, I've seen MS-62 coins that should be AU-58 or MS-60 at best. When I see an AU-58 coin that looks better and has better surfaces than a mint state graded coin,..than the AU coin will be the one I buy. Why ? The coin will sell on its own merits to another knowledgeable collector as an MS coin when it is busted out of its slab. I've busted AU-58 coins out of there slabs and sent them back in to NGC or PCGS, and had them come back as MS-62. Knowledge in grading is the key in this hobby. I sometimes wonder how PCGS or NGC teach their graders. Or if they even care how much knowledge their graders have.
Lets stay on the subject of knowledge in this hobby for a bit. What I find funny and wrong from the TPGS, is when they get the lable wrong. I have one coin in my collection graded by NGC. They marked the coin as be minting in the German State of Hesse-Darm. It only took me one look at the coat of arms on the coin to see it was minted in Bavaria. What I find wrong, is that if the coin was from Hesse-Darm, than it would be worth twice the money of the Bavarian piece. This gives a scum dealer the chance to take advantage of an unknowledgeable collector. The dealer can not be called the bad guy, as NGC was the one that made the mistake. What I'm trying to say, is that to many collectors take what the TPGS have printed on the tag, as the final word. My advice I've always told new collectors, is to study in depth the series of coin they are going to collect. Sorry for going OT.
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FilthyBroke,
There's even a South African slabber operating out of Cape Town.
Here's a link to his website; http://www.sacoingrading.co.za (http://www.sacoingrading.co.za) .
For some reason,they go absolutely nuts as far as grading goes in South Africa.I think that they've gone the same way as Canada have by adopting the 70 point grading,& the very Yank practice of slabbing.
Aidan.
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the very Yank practice of slabbing.
Aidan.
I'm glad to be Yank.
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Lately I've been using CoinWorld slabs unless the coin happens to already be graded. I care about protecting the coin, and I purchase from reputable sellers who offer authenticity guarantees. After that, I just go by my own eye (such that it is).
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The 7 point grading system is a good one,considering that no grading system is either foolproof or perfect.
If it involves strange numbering,then it causes confusion,especially for old-fashioned collectors like myself.
Aidan.
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I see nothing wrong with the 70 point grading system.
It cam from the grading of large copper cents. Thus a
MS-70 coin penny was worth 70 times what a Basal
state 1 was worth.Of course, this was a long time ago.
The true purpose of todays 70 or even a possible 100
grade range is money. TPG make a loving from regrades
and the more points to play with, the more money flows
in.A major problem with the 70 point system is the enormous
jumps in price values we see between two numbers. I have
really not understood why one point miight be 4X as much
difference in price. I suppose condition rarity might play a role.
Taking CB Halves as an example. I find it relatively easy to spot
AU-50, AU-53, AU-55 and AU-58 condition coins of that series. I do
not say that I can do that with every series, but I can do pretty well
with the series and the particular grades that I prefer in my collection.
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I see nothing wrong with the 70 point grading system.
It cam from the grading of large copper cents. Thus a
MS-70 coin penny was worth 70 times what a Basal
state 1 was worth.Of course, this was a long time ago.
I hadn't heard this before, thanks for the info, Bear.
The true purpose of todays 70 or even a possible 100
grade range is money. TPG make a loving from regrades
and the more points to play with, the more money flows
in.A major problem with the 70 point system is the enormous
jumps in price values we see between two numbers. I have
really not understood why one point miight be 4X as much
difference in price. I suppose condition rarity might play a role.
I would bet a lot of the higher pricing is paying for bragging rights, or maybe pop reports and the registry set. This is fine if that's how you want to do it, but that kind of collecting not for me. It's become our system, it would seem, but collectors make it valid, and the prices are based on what many appear to be are paying for a number.