CoinsAreFun

US Coins, World Coins, and More => US Coins, tokens and medals => Topic started by: coinsarefun on September 14, 2010, 03:29:11 PM

Title: 1964-D Peace Dollar Overstrike
Post by: coinsarefun on September 14, 2010, 03:29:11 PM
Could  prove to be quite an interesting coin

(http://www.dc-coin.com/images/products/detail/mm_100_1964d_obv.jpg)(http://www.dc-coin.com/images/products/detail/mm_100_1964d_rev.jpg)




From Daniel Carr's website  http://www.dc-coin.com/1grabenercoinpressmedallionsaleprice-1.aspx (http://www.dc-coin.com/1grabenercoinpressmedallionsaleprice-1.aspx)

The 1964-D Peace silver dollar is one of the most enigmatic coins in history. On August 3 1964 legislation was enacted authorizing 45 million new silver dollars to be coined. In May 1965 the White House finally ordered some to be produced and the Denver Mint soon minted 316,076 of the coins which carried a 1964 date and a design identical to the Peace silver dollar last minted from 1921-1935. Shortly after the first mintage, an order went out to destroy them. The Treasury Department claims every one was accounted for and melted. None have publicly surfaced in the 45 years since. If an original 1964 Peace silver dollar were to turn up, it would be subject to immediate confiscation since it would be assumed to be stolen government property.

Now available is this modern over-strike "1964-D" Peace silver dollar, the most exacting and faithful rendition ever produced. Holding this coin in hand gives the viewer a true sense of what it would be like to own an original 1964-D Peace silver dollar. And since these are over-struck on genuine Peace silver dollars, they have the correct weight (no metal is added or removed), correct metallic content, and correct diameter. Even the number of reeds on the edge (189) is correct. And to top it off, all the over-strikes are privately and painstakingly performed using a surplus Denver Mint coin press !

In an ironic twist, the original 1964 Peace dollars are illegal to own. But this modern fantasy is LEGAL and is not required to carry a "COPY" stamp for the following reasons:

1) These are not copies of Peace silver dollars - they are privately over-struck on GENUINE government-issue Peace silver dollars that were originally minted from 1922-1935.
2) According to the US Treasury, no 1964 Peace silver dollars survived - so this can't be a copy of one since they don't exist.
3) Defacing of US coins is legal so long as the defacement isn't for fraudulent purposes.

By purchasing one or more of these coins, the buyer agrees to provide full disclosure of their origin when reselling them. Failure to provide potential buyers with complete and accurate information when offering these coins could result in criminal and/or civil fraud charges. In other words, don't even think about trying to sell these to unaware buyers as original 1964-D Peace silver dollars !

The pictures accurately show what the coins look like. No photo editing was performed. There may be subtle differences between coins. Since they are over-struck on existing coins, there may be faint evidence of the original coin design showing since the overstrike is usually not perfectly aligned with the original strike. The "D" mint mark was intentionally punched far to the left and then corrected. This provides a marker for future identification as to the source. Also note the fourth extra ray below "ONE", as seen on the original 1921 issue and on some of the 1935-S issue.
Title: Re: 1964-D Peace Dollar Overstrike
Post by: FilthyBroke on September 14, 2010, 03:44:30 PM
How does it differ from so many Chinese-based counterfeits that are being made?  (Besides the disclaimer that he provides, that is)



Title: Re: 1964-D Peace Dollar Overstrike
Post by: Deagle74 on September 14, 2010, 03:46:04 PM
Vau Stefanie - have read an article about 1964 Peace dollar in COINage magazine. And this idea is just stunning  ???
But as I'm familiar with Uncle Sam mentality (and as a lawyer myself)- the State will not turn a blind eye on this :). Too risky to let the ghost out of the bottle (literary)
Keep us posted  ;D

Rok
Title: Re: 1964-D Peace Dollar Overstrike
Post by: FilthyBroke on September 14, 2010, 04:20:46 PM
How does it differ from so many Chinese-based counterfeits that are being made?  (Besides the disclaimer that he provides, that is)



Hey!  How'd you do that?  My post was modified.    ???

This was added - In my opinion it differs, maybe because he is known for fantasy coins. Yes, there is no "copy" stamped on it, but it doesn't really need one
since the coin was never  made.

I look at it like a pattern coin or a fantasy coin. Either way it still is kinda cool.....IMO
Title: Re: 1964-D Peace Dollar Overstrike
Post by: FilthyBroke on September 14, 2010, 04:24:28 PM
.. But in response to that, there was talk of the 1964 existing at one time.  Wouldn't that alone make this a prime tool for fraudulent resale?  I can see it now -

Ebay listing  -

 L@@K!!!!  Uber-rare 1964 Peace dollar found in my Grandmother's knitting basket.  (I assume no responsiblity for it's authenticity, as I'm not a coin professional.)

 :(
Title: Re: 1964-D Peace Dollar Overstrike
Post by: coinsarefun on September 14, 2010, 05:12:51 PM
How does it differ from so many Chinese-based counterfeits that are being made?  (Besides the disclaimer that he provides, that is)




In my opinion it differs, maybe because he is known for fantasy coins. Yes, there is no "copy" stamped on it, but it doesn't really need one
since the coin was never  made.

I look at it like a pattern coin or a fantasy coin. Either way it still is kinda cool.....IMO
Title: Re: 1964-D Peace Dollar Overstrike
Post by: coinsarefun on September 14, 2010, 05:14:22 PM
How does it differ from so many Chinese-based counterfeits that are being made?  (Besides the disclaimer that he provides, that is)



Hey!  How'd you do that?  My post was modified.    ???

This was added - In my opinion it differs, maybe because he is known for fantasy coins. Yes, there is no "copy" stamped on it, but it doesn't really need one
since the coin was never  made.

I look at it like a pattern coin or a fantasy coin. Either way it still is kinda cool.....IMO




Sorry about that (hail)) I forget I have the capability to modify and the first tab to click is modify instead of quote :(
Title: Re: 1964-D Peace Dollar Overstrike
Post by: coinsarefun on September 14, 2010, 05:19:26 PM
Vau Stefanie - have read an article about 1964 Peace dollar in COINage magazine. And this idea is just stunning  ???
But as I'm familiar with Uncle Sam mentality (and as a lawyer myself)- the State will not turn a blind eye on this :). Too risky to let the ghost out of the bottle (literary)
Keep us posted  ;D

Rok





I must admit I like controversy :Funny;
It brightens my day and I think this will bring at the very least
attention to the story behind the 1964 Peace dollar.
Legal or not, I think it will make for some good reading ;)
Title: Re: 1964-D Peace Dollar Overstrike
Post by: FilthyBroke on September 14, 2010, 05:42:39 PM


Sorry about that (hail)) I forget I have the capability to modify and the first tab to click is modify instead of quote :(

Oh, so that was you! ;)  I wondered what happened.  In fact, I had to read it twice to remember if I posted it myself.  No big deal, really. :)

I agree that it makes for some interesting reading over on CU.  I don't like the fact that he made these, but that's just my opinion.  What's to stop him from making other examples of U.S. coins?  I personally don't know every date for every coin made, and I can see where someone could be easily deceived by a coin with altered date or mintmark.  You really have to know your stuff to never get deceived by fakes or altered coins.
Title: Re: 1964-D Peace Dollar Overstrike
Post by: coinsarefun on September 14, 2010, 06:04:57 PM
Once again, quoted from his site, may help but doubtful if an inexperienced collector
would be able to decipher the difference.

What would be cool is that each should be different because it is stuck over an existing Peace
dollar. It may look cool if you see a faint double struck look ;D


Since they are over-struck on existing coins, there may be faint evidence of the original coin design showing since the overstrike is usually not perfectly aligned with the original strike. The "D" mint mark was intentionally punched far to the left and then corrected. This provides a marker for future identification as to the source. Also note the fourth extra ray below "ONE", as seen on the original 1921 issue and on some of the 1935-S issue.
Title: Re: 1964-D Peace Dollar Overstrike
Post by: mmarotta on September 15, 2010, 08:32:48 AM
Walter Breen's Complete Encyclopedia of U.S. and Colonial coins has a different story on page 461.  According to Breen, Fern Miller of the Denver Mint told local coin dealer Dan Brown that as usual various employees had purchased one or two new dollars apiece, but that when the recall order came in, no one kept track, either of the number sold or of the number returned.



Title: Re: 1964-D Peace Dollar Overstrike
Post by: Larry on September 15, 2010, 10:26:55 AM

I just hope not to see rays sticking out of Peace's face like pointed whiskers.  LOL

Did you order or receive one of these fantasy examples, Stefanie?

I think they are a rather nifty idea.  Did he engrave the obverse die or does he have original U.S. Mint dies?  LOL

This also will reduce the number of Peace Dollars around,  That's good.  ; )

I could research some of the answers to my questions but would rather ask you.  : )
Title: Re: 1964-D Peace Dollar Overstrike
Post by: Larry on September 15, 2010, 10:28:11 AM
I'll certainly be checking our knitting basket, thanks to FilhyBroke.  haha
Title: Re: 1964-D Peace Dollar Overstrike
Post by: coinsarefun on September 15, 2010, 10:53:01 AM
Larry,

I will ask him how the dies were prepared, but he did tell me this:





 
The evidence of overstriking ranges from non-existant to a doubled profile on Liberty's neck 
and/or a doubled profile on the Eagle's shoulder. 

All of them are actually over-struck four times at 250+ tons (it is a lot harder to strike over 
an existing coin than on a virgin blank). All four over-strikes are exactly aligned. 

 

The final mintage is yet to be determined - but likely less than 2,000 - perhaps a lot less. 
Not sure yet. 


Title: Re: 1964-D Peace Dollar Overstrike
Post by: Larry on September 15, 2010, 12:59:18 PM
Thanks.  I wonder about the cost, but can check Daniel's site or call him.
I have spoken with him once in the past, when considering having some medals engraved and struck.
That project, unfulfilled, is no longer under consideration.

Maybe a coinsarefun medal, overstruck on Britannia.  LOL
Title: Re: 1964-D Peace Dollar Overstrike
Post by: coinsarefun on September 15, 2010, 01:08:13 PM
Thanks.  I wonder about the cost, but can check Daniel's site or call him.
I have spoken with him once in the past, when considering having some medals engraved and struck.
That project, unfulfilled, is no longer under consideration.

Maybe a coinsarefun medal, overstruck on Britannia.  LOL



They are $110 each plus about $5 for shipping.


You know what Larry..........once this forum get more active and I don't have to spend so much money on it
I simply love the idea of a silver 1 ounce CoinsAreFun dollar.

Maybe we should have a design contest Happy(*)
Title: Re: 1964-D Peace Dollar Overstrike
Post by: FilthyBroke on September 15, 2010, 02:44:16 PM

Maybe we should have a design contest Happy(*)


PLEASE do!   ;D  That is a fantastic idea, even if it were just done for fun!
Title: Re: 1964-D Peace Dollar Overstrike
Post by: coinsarefun on September 17, 2010, 12:51:47 PM
Received mine today, it looks pretty cool :)




(http://www.coinsarefun.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=1162)
Title: Re: 1964-D Peace Dollar Overstrike
Post by: FilthyBroke on September 17, 2010, 05:19:34 PM

Nice looking Peace dollar..er.. fantasy piece. ;) 
Title: Re: 1964-D Peace Dollar Overstrike
Post by: coinsarefun on September 17, 2010, 05:35:55 PM
 :party:

Nice looking Peace dollar..er.. fantasy piece. ;)




Yes, fantasy piece would be good description  :)
Title: Re: 1964-D Peace Dollar Overstrike
Post by: Coindude on September 23, 2010, 04:56:56 PM
When I saw this I thought it was pretty cool... but wouldn't it have even been more cool in High Relief!!!  :Beatingheart;
Title: Re: 1964-D Peace Dollar Overstrike
Post by: coinsarefun on September 23, 2010, 05:06:28 PM
When I saw this I thought it was pretty cool... but wouldn't it have even been more cool in High Relief!!!  :Beatingheart;



It already looks like a satin proof....high relief would have been icing on the cake :P